Canuk, that's cetainly worth mulling over, but if skaters can play 10-15 seasons what would that do to goalies?

I'd keep the current goalie Total time played.

Goalies have nothing to do with the current situation. If anything, since we changed the TOI rules for goalies, they've been retiring at probably a higher rate than skaters.

I really need to say guys... if this problem doesn't get fixed, and soon... MEANING BEFORE THIS NEXT SEASON... this whole league is just really losing its flavor to me. Another asterisk of a championship. I can't tell you how boring this is getting. I know I just paid $50 to re-up for another 8 seasons... but really... I'm pretty much on the edge of resigning.

The current flaw that allows for whole-team warehousing has sucked all the fun out of the league. I just don't want to do this anymore. It's boring and completely counter to reality, good sportsmanship, and common sense to exploit a flaw in order to win.

We've got to have some strong leadership here to just step in and make a decision one way or the other. I know your plate is full okp, but we've got to get well in a hurry.

I disagree Damag Goalies can be warehoused too..In fact I think that and the defenseman warehousing have more of an effect than do the forwards. A lot of teams use their (Top Goalies) just for the playoffs because it does not count against their TOI.

As far as Yogs point I understand the fustration I have been in this league for 20 seasons and never won..so I have frustration too but no fix can be automatic, you cannot make owners just drop players, I wouldn't stand for that. I traded away some draft choices to get some vets and I am certainly not just dropping them. Institute the 20 game rule if a player does not play 20 games during the season then he cannot play in the playoffs, same rule for goalies TOO!

No one is breaking any rules here everyone had the choice to warehouse or not warehouse, I agree it makes the regular season a lot less meaningfull when the best players are sitting on the bench

I would support a minimum playoff qualification level of 20 reg season GP ... doesn't force you to retire anyone - keep them forever if you want (although that's not realistic either - theirs only been two Howe's or Chelios' in how many years?) - but you can't stockpile them for use in the post-season.

Seems like it addresses both sides' legitimate concerns. Only people who will be upset are the one's blatantly going against the spirit of fair competition and the spirit of the league.

Realistically, a guy who only plays a quarter of the season each and every year is NOT going to have a long career, let alone 20+ seasons.

Yogs the other thing is you have only missed the playoffs one season as far back as season 4...how do you get good draft picks if you are always near the top? same thing had happened to me till it finally caught up with me

The first thing to address is PLAYOFF goalies if you only play them in the playoffs that is not realistic

If you look at a lot of the teams that go to the final 4 their goalies did not play many minutes if any during the regular season make playoff minutes count against TOI too

"Asterisk championships?" Sure glad I don't have any championships. Helluva backhanded insult.

corbs I didn't mean that goalies have NO impact, but I hadn't considered that some owners have playoff-only goalies. I haven't kept that close track of all the goalies, but I know that I've had 100/100 goalies and they haven't made much of a difference for me at all in terms of results. I stopped saving roster space for them, doesn't mean others didn't I guess.

Not trying to send backhanded insults... just calling it the way it is, and I think rammers would probably agree with me. The system is broken. How could you call wining a cup with a team of eternally young super-players (in a league whose entire express purpose was to have as much realism as possible) anything other than an asterisk?

rammers and vicpat haven't broken any rules. They've just exploited a loophole, and it's time to close it.

I think what we can say happened is this: when we switched to the current game engine, we got every improvement to this league that we hoped for.

We also saw that the ratings of the players mattered more than they had during the "dead puck era." The best teams won more often. Rebuilding teams took bad beatings. The finals stopped being 5 seeds against 7 seeds. Team which played their best rosters racked up deserved totals.

During the dead puck era, we all knew owners who warehoused, ran max playoff teams... most of us took a shot at it ourselves... but there was no proven benefit, so it wasn't worth complaining about. The first time I realized another owner was over-warehousing, I mentioned it to a fellow owner in private, and received no response. The owner in question never won a cup. It wasn't an issue.

Now that the ratings matter more than they used to, warehousing works. It's been proven. So now let's fix it.