Posted by strikeout26 on 8/8/2018 10:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/8/2018 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/8/2018 11:10:00 AM (view original):
Keep in mind, Jews have had a long history of oppression also but that doesn't mean that I think that anybody owes me anything and I don't teach my kids that they are owed anything. I think it is a grave error to preach rhetoric that the current generation owes something because of the sins of a prior generation or generations.

What good comes from telling young minorities that the country is racist/bigoted and they are born with one hand tied behind their back? Doesn't that in actuality hurt them more than stating "if you work hard you can achieve anything in this country, regardless of race or gender"?

I'm not sure how denying reality helps anyone.

If someone is born with one leg, does it make sense to tell them that they actually have two legs?

You made a poor comparison, but if one of my children were missing a limb I would teach them how to thrive without it. I would not allow them to use the handicap as a crutch (no pun intended) for failure.

Sure. But you wouldn’t pretend they have two legs, right?

Nope.

Honestly, I can probably relate to this situation more than most in these forums. I have an adopted black son. It's kind of funny because my wife and I are only 10 years older than him. It was a situation where his mother had him at 14 years old, so when he was a teenager she was still in her 20's and wanted to play. She had no interest in being a mother. When he was 15, my wife and I decided to adopt him. His mother agreed. To make a long story short, he is now a police officer and deals with racism from some of the other officers. I have been very proud of his ability to brush it off and continue to push towards his goals. To add some irony to the story, he married a biracial girl who has a racist white grandmother.

That is an awesome story

Posted by strikeout26 on 8/9/2018 12:47:00 AM (view original):
Nope.

Honestly, I can probably relate to this situation more than most in these forums. I have an adopted black son. It's kind of funny because my wife and I are only 10 years older than him. It was a situation where his mother had him at 14 years old, so when he was a teenager she was still in her 20's and wanted to play. She had no interest in being a mother. When he was 15, my wife and I decided to adopt him. His mother agreed. To make a long story short, he is now a police officer and deals with racism from some of the other officers. I have been very proud of his ability to brush it off and continue to push towards his goals. To add some irony to the story, he married a biracial girl who has a racist white grandmother.

That’s great. And, without snark, it doesn’t change the fact that society puts blacks at a disadvantage.

Sounds like a cool family, strikeout. Keep up the good work (and yes, keeping a family together and on the correct path is work).

Posted by bad_luck on 8/9/2018 9:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 8/9/2018 12:47:00 AM (view original):
Nope.

Honestly, I can probably relate to this situation more than most in these forums. I have an adopted black son. It's kind of funny because my wife and I are only 10 years older than him. It was a situation where his mother had him at 14 years old, so when he was a teenager she was still in her 20's and wanted to play. She had no interest in being a mother. When he was 15, my wife and I decided to adopt him. His mother agreed. To make a long story short, he is now a police officer and deals with racism from some of the other officers. I have been very proud of his ability to brush it off and continue to push towards his goals. To add some irony to the story, he married a biracial girl who has a racist white grandmother.

That’s great. And, without snark, it doesn’t change the fact that society puts blacks at a disadvantage.

"Society"? Doesn't sound like strikeout is part of the society by that operational definition.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/9/2018 9:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 8/9/2018 12:47:00 AM (view original):
Nope.

Honestly, I can probably relate to this situation more than most in these forums. I have an adopted black son. It's kind of funny because my wife and I are only 10 years older than him. It was a situation where his mother had him at 14 years old, so when he was a teenager she was still in her 20's and wanted to play. She had no interest in being a mother. When he was 15, my wife and I decided to adopt him. His mother agreed. To make a long story short, he is now a police officer and deals with racism from some of the other officers. I have been very proud of his ability to brush it off and continue to push towards his goals. To add some irony to the story, he married a biracial girl who has a racist white grandmother.

That’s great. And, without snark, it doesn’t change the fact that society puts blacks at a disadvantage.

Many can argue that society places Jewish people at a disadvantage. Not just in the US but in Europe as well. Is it because Jewish people have successfully overcame these disadvantages that people are not speaking about them?

If you can see that Jews face disadvantages, why can’t you see that blacks do too?

I can. There are racist people in America. Millions of them. My argument is that institutions are not racist, the people are. I am sure the HR policy/mantra of JP Morgan Chase is not...hire only whites. I don't think any entity public or private has that mantra. Of course there are people within those institutions who are racist. I don't disagree there.

How come you didn't answer my question. How have Jewish people overcome the blatant anti semitism. Per a recent study, 10% of the US hold anti-semitic view. Well 10% of adults or ~24 million people. Keep in mind there are a lot fewer Jews than Asians, Hispanics and African Americans. Jews are the true minority. Yet rarely do people speak about this.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/9/2018 10:08:00 AM (view original):
I can. There are racist people in America. Millions of them. My argument is that institutions are not racist, the people are. I am sure the HR policy/mantra of JP Morgan Chase is not...hire only whites. I don't think any entity public or private has that mantra. Of course there are people within those institutions who are racist. I don't disagree there.

How come you didn't answer my question. How have Jewish people overcome the blatant anti semitism. Per a recent study, 10% of the US hold anti-semitic view. Well 10% of adults or ~24 million people. Keep in mind there are a lot fewer Jews than Asians, Hispanics and African Americans. Jews are the true minority. Yet rarely do people speak about this.

Again, institutional racism doesn’t require an official policy. It doesn’t require a conspiracy.

All that it it requires is that people in positions of power, intentionally or unintentionally, select against blacks.

I don’t know the answer to your question. Maybe the antisemitism isn’t as wide spread as racism against blacks.

Part of it is that it is not always obvious when a person is Jewish. It is almost always obvious when a person is black, or hispanic. If you hate Jews but can't tell if a person is Jewish, you may not show your anti-semitism to that person.

Posted by wylie715 on 8/9/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):
Part of it is that it is not always obvious when a person is Jewish. It is almost always obvious when a person is black, or hispanic. If you hate Jews but can't tell if a person is Jewish, you may not show your anti-semitism to that person.

If I send you an email and my name is Mike Smith, I could be black or white. If my name is Ari Goldstein, I am Jewish. Many times you can tell someone is Jewish by the name alone.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/9/2018 10:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/9/2018 10:08:00 AM (view original):
I can. There are racist people in America. Millions of them. My argument is that institutions are not racist, the people are. I am sure the HR policy/mantra of JP Morgan Chase is not...hire only whites. I don't think any entity public or private has that mantra. Of course there are people within those institutions who are racist. I don't disagree there.

How come you didn't answer my question. How have Jewish people overcome the blatant anti semitism. Per a recent study, 10% of the US hold anti-semitic view. Well 10% of adults or ~24 million people. Keep in mind there are a lot fewer Jews than Asians, Hispanics and African Americans. Jews are the true minority. Yet rarely do people speak about this.

Again, institutional racism doesn’t require an official policy. It doesn’t require a conspiracy.

All that it it requires is that people in positions of power, intentionally or unintentionally, select against blacks.

I don’t know the answer to your question. Maybe the antisemitism isn’t as wide spread as racism against blacks.

Exactly, you don't know. Even if I am the biggest racist out there, I have zero impact on a young AA female getting pregnant and raising the child solo. I think we are less racist now as a society than we were in the 1960s. Back then 20% of AA grew up with a single parent. Today it is 70%. That is the issue that can easily be addressed but is swept under the rug beause indentity politics forces us to just argue over the color of peoples skin or their heritage/religion.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/9/2018 12:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/9/2018 10:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/9/2018 10:08:00 AM (view original):
I can. There are racist people in America. Millions of them. My argument is that institutions are not racist, the people are. I am sure the HR policy/mantra of JP Morgan Chase is not...hire only whites. I don't think any entity public or private has that mantra. Of course there are people within those institutions who are racist. I don't disagree there.

How come you didn't answer my question. How have Jewish people overcome the blatant anti semitism. Per a recent study, 10% of the US hold anti-semitic view. Well 10% of adults or ~24 million people. Keep in mind there are a lot fewer Jews than Asians, Hispanics and African Americans. Jews are the true minority. Yet rarely do people speak about this.

Again, institutional racism doesn’t require an official policy. It doesn’t require a conspiracy.

All that it it requires is that people in positions of power, intentionally or unintentionally, select against blacks.

I don’t know the answer to your question. Maybe the antisemitism isn’t as wide spread as racism against blacks.

Exactly, you don't know. Even if I am the biggest racist out there, I have zero impact on a young AA female getting pregnant and raising the child solo. I think we are less racist now as a society than we were in the 1960s. Back then 20% of AA grew up with a single parent. Today it is 70%. That is the issue that can easily be addressed but is swept under the rug beause indentity politics forces us to just argue over the color of peoples skin or their heritage/religion.

I guess I'll take this line by line.

Even if I am the biggest racist out there, I have zero impact on a young AA female getting pregnant and raising the child solo.

Correct. You personally would have no impact in that specific situation.

I think we are less racist now as a society than we were in the 1960s.

Considering the fact that blacks were still getting lynched in the 1960's, that's a very, very low bar to clear and really doesn't mean much regarding institutional racism today.

Back then 20% of AA grew up with a single parent. Today it is 70%

Yeah, it's almost like entrenched, multi-generational poverty has had some sort of impact.

That is the issue that can easily be addressed but is swept under the rug

I doubt there's an easy way to address that issue.

beause indentity politics forces us to just argue over the color of peoples skin or their heritage/religion

I don't think the color of people's skin is really up for much debate. It's usually pretty clear.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/9/2018 12:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 8/9/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):
Part of it is that it is not always obvious when a person is Jewish. It is almost always obvious when a person is black, or hispanic. If you hate Jews but can't tell if a person is Jewish, you may not show your anti-semitism to that person.

If I send you an email and my name is Mike Smith, I could be black or white. If my name is Ari Goldstein, I am Jewish. Many times you can tell someone is Jewish by the name alone.

true, but I think a lot more prejudice is face to face than over email. If I see a black guy I know he is black without knowing his name. If I see a white guy, he may or may not be Jewish. I have no real way of knowing.