Quote: Originally Posted By hurley711 on 8/26/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By bball_jones on 8/26/2008

Seble, about salaries, I've got a team sitting in an OL right now, I'm hoping it gets started before the release cause as it is now it's over the 42mil cap and I'd really like to get them on.

Here's a few things i've noticed.

current salaries= 41 922 649 new salaries= 4 2743 286

that's + 820 637 , not as huge a difference as i feared but still over the cap

of the 5 starters only one had a decrease in salary, the one who got a significant D rating decrease 06-07 Rip Hamilton, the 4 others increased from 497 997 to 1 375 520, the 93-94 Rodman which is a huge increase for a guy who avg less than 36 min per game.

All of the bench guys decreased in salaries most notable 02-03 Tayshaun Prince from 607 677 to 239 000 must have to do with his D rating who fell from 99 to 50, which I find ludicrous, the guy is in the league and was on the olympic team because he's one of the best defenders.

So while on average the increase was less than a million, it seems that a lot of stars have increased around a million. So it looks like we can't afford good starters but we can get better scrubs.

Not a good deal...

how long have you been waiting for that OL to fill

this one two days now, it's gone from 8 to 10 i think. The last three leagues i've been in all took a while to fill at least a full week, i'd say there are no more than 2 or 3 teams that joined per day, which is pretty slow...

Being able to get better scrubs? Sounds like a familiar idea ... from way back ... around 2003.

For those not from that era, the veteran users of the time wanted changes in the sim that would force owners to draft a deeper bench. I didn't want it but they got what they wanted. Then complained about the results.

The changes worked like a charm. Though, we didn't have defensive ratings, position penalties, blah, blah, blah, the salaries allowed owners to draft a deeper bench. But the key feature that allowed this was the minutes distribution -- a feature that exists to this day. The salaries made it affordable.

Previously, players go down based on actual games played. Now owners can 'distribute' the minutes throughout the season without having to worry about injuries. I'm not saying that it was impossible under the previous system to draft a very deep team and not win a championship. It was possible, I did it and I'm sure it could be done again.

And just like now, there were opposition (and I was one of them) to the then-new minute distribution.

Like I said the combo of salaries and minutes distribution worked wonders in convincing owners to draft a deep bench, as the changes made such teams superior over most. Previously, they could draft a deep team but it was difficult to find that winning combo. The changes made it easy for them.

In other words, it made a known championship-caliber drafting strategy of creating "platoon teams" into a cookie-cutter ring machine.

Only later was it discovered that this ring machine could be challenged by another then-new drafting strategy of the super-powered rebounding teams (e.g. Wilt/Russell combo, Baylor/Pettit/Russell, etc.).

WIS made salary changes that made the stronger platoon teams less affordable anyway as the veterans complained about these teams.

The changes made the championship-caliber drafting strategy of the Wilt/Bill combo, etc. into another cookie-cutter ring machine. More changes were to follow to combat this cookie-cutter.

The moral of the story is that the sim won't die. Owners will find a new drafting strategy that works under the proposed new salaries and other changes, even if this "new" strategy isn't actually new. People complain. More changes to follow. It is an endless cycle that keeps the sim --- what's that word that people use, oh yeah -- "fresh".

Just because you bought 545 teams, doesn't mean everyone else will do the same...get this...there will be people that up and quit or at least cut back because of the changes...look how busy the sim was 4-5 years ago compared to now.

Guys, give us a chance to look at salaries.

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 8/26/2008Guys, give us a chance to look at salaries.

I don't think you will have any owner cut out of the NBA sim completely without checking it out. I will for sure be trying it out. With a OL team, UPL, ODL, Funks52, $20 Mill, and probably a theme or two. After that though I could be done or hooked back for more. That is the way your business goes and the way owners/customers will go. But when you have owners, who in my mind (scud/ncih), seem to be saying the changes could hurt the sim. Then as a business I would take a harder look at everything that you are changing. WIS community may like some of the changes and some may hate them. You are going to get that either way, and you are going to have to make changes so some will just have to deal and others will love it. Monkee/colonels may be the most vocal about the sim, and I don't agree with everything that they say, but sometimes you should listen to them. Listening to them doesn't mean doing what they say. But some times they have very valid points that could vastly improve the sim/happyness of more owners.

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 8/26/2008Guys, give us a chance to look at salaries.

Seble be honest with us here. Is NBA SIM use down from this point last year or even 4-6 months ago? All signs point to it being down, evident by the number of themes sitting waiting to be filled and the fact that many OL owners who I trust say that it takes longer for those leagues to fill compared to a few months ago.

Actually NBA sales in August this year are nearly identical to last year in August. Down slightly from 2 years ago. Up somewhat significantly from 3 years ago.

Zach Randolph scored a 91 on defense with the Knicks this past season....

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 8/26/2008Actually NBA sales in August this year are nearly identical to last year in August. Down slightly from 2 years ago. Up somewhat significantly from 3 years ago

Three years ago was after the salary adjustment that ran off so many owners.

I would love to know how it compares to four and five years ago.

Higher than 4 years ago, right in line with 5 years ago.

Yeah the 12 of us still here regularly sometimes feel the need to get completely hammered and don't have as much cash to give to you that particular month.

Then open league play must be much higher, because theme league play has almost completely died.

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 8/27/2008Higher than 4 years ago, right in line with 5 years ago

Say what you will, I don't believe this for one second...2003-2004 was easily the peak of this sim and there were tons of players. You can't tell me it was taking 4 or 5 days to weeks for open leagues to fill back then, because its false. For every cenquist and ashamael that has burst onto the seen with deep pockets, I'll show you 5-6 guys that and never came back.

Quote: Originally Posted By ncih on 8/27/2008
Then open league play must be much higher, because theme league play has almost completely died.

for the past three months the OLs i've entered have taken at least 7 to 10 days to get started, about twice as slow as when i first started playing about a year n half ago. The OL i'm sitting in right now hasn't moved much since i've joined it 3 days ago, maybe two more teams...

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 8/27/2008
Higher than 4 years ago, right in line with 5 years ago.

if true this is sad given that in the last 5 years you have been purchased by Fox, developed branding partnerships and extensive links to other sites etc - you seem to be standing still despite all marketing efforts