What’s your source? Prove it! Topic

isack24
Posts: 1566 (0)
Hall of Famer
81 19
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/29/2009
I said exactly what CS said, I don't see how I am wrong? I said it won't be a significant help, they said it might help, aren't those one and the same
How are "won't" and "might" the same thing?
12/29/2009 1:02 PM
zhawks
Posts: 881 (0)
Hall of Famer
208 66 38
Pro
Quote: Originally Posted By isack24 on 12/29/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/29/2009

I said exactly what CS said, I don't see how I am wrong? I said it won't be a significant help, they said it might help, aren't those one and the same.

How are "won't" and "might" the same thing
It won't be a significant help. You are keying in on the wrong words.
12/29/2009 1:04 PM
namshub
Posts: 280 (0)
Hall of Famer
48 3 307 2 37
Rookie
Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 12/29/2009
Without taking into account a team's results of any kind (W-L, RPI, SOS, or otherwise because I ALREADY HAVE A RANKING THAT ACCOUNTS FOR THIS) what is the best way to judge team talent? Please be as specific is possible, because according to you, I don't get it........

so....

what was the answer to this question again?



the quickest way i judge a team's talent at the beginning of the season is how many 800+ rated players they have and how many Jr's and Sr's. yes its incredibly fallible but its quick and gives me a ballpark ranking for them (not in the order of top 25 but in the order of very good, average, not good).
12/29/2009 1:06 PM
colonels19
Posts: 4399 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By breum on 12/29/2009Colonels, IBob had 12 SF's on his DI team. Another guy, who I don't recall, had 12 PF's on a DIII team that at least made the final four, if they didn't win the title. Its been done many times
If conceded this and have already given the benefit of the doubt...there's still no physical proof, but I believe other guys that remember actual examples other than zhawks. Thank you for the reiteration though. I just contest the fact that you'd have to lower the overall team rating if you had 12 players all at the same position to penalize players for playing out of position, because as you've shown, such teams have made the tournament before.
12/29/2009 1:06 PM
schroedess26
Posts: 54 (0)
All Star
29 1 1
Prospect
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
12/29/2009 1:10 PM
colonels19
Posts: 4399 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By schroedess26 on 12/29/2009
Quote: Originally posted by colonels19 on 12/29/2009
Without taking into account a team's results of any kind (W-L, RPI, SOS, or otherwise because I ALREADY HAVE A RANKING THAT ACCOUNTS FOR THIS) what is the best way to judge team talent? Please be as specific is possible, because according to you, I don't get it........

so....

what was the answer to this question again?



There is no positive way to say it. It is so complicated that you could never recreate it on paper. You can't even try as coaches change, pace, distro, 3 point frequency, depth charts, and everything else every game.

You could say Ath and Spd is the end all be all in the M2M and against the M2M defense, but when going up against the press then BH and PA becomes more important. You forget then though about the Zone which they might have 2 really weak defenders.

So what happens when you enter this in for each defense? Well what about the teams they are playing? Their whole conference might play Press or Zone or M2M and they non-con might be all different.

No way to create a ranking system without going through the WIS code to see how everything is rated in their system. So if you can get the code we could have a chance at doing ratings
Thank you for showing how ridiculously difficult and cumbersome it would be to include every last miniutiae laden event in HD into a ranking system...hell WIS doesn't even do it. I'm going to PROVE that you can have a solid/viable ranking system without accounting for every last X, Y, and Z that every coach does in HD. Thank you for your response though, I do appreciate it.
12/29/2009 1:10 PM
colonels19
Posts: 4399 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/29/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By isack24 on 12/29/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/29/2009

I said exactly what CS said, I don't see how I am wrong? I said it won't be a significant help, they said it might help, aren't those one and the same.

How are "won't" and "might" the same thing?
It won't be a significant help. You are keying in on the wrong words
Isack is right here...you're changing your argument here....the chasm between won't and might is VAST.
12/29/2009 1:11 PM
mlatsko1
Posts: 61 (0)
Hall of Famer
298 1 13
Prospect
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
12/29/2009 1:20 PM
isack24
Posts: 1566 (0)
Hall of Famer
81 19
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/29/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By isack24 on 12/29/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/29/2009

I said exactly what CS said, I don't see how I am wrong? I said it won't be a significant help, they said it might help, aren't those one and the same.

How are "won't" and "might" the same thing?
It won't be a significant help. You are keying in on the wrong words
No.

"Won't be a significant help."

"Might be a significant help."

Two different things.

Seriously, it is actually okay to admit that you didn't know something. I trust your experience because have a lot of it, but you don't know everything about this game.

I think what bugs some people in these situations is an absolute refusal to even budge on the possibility that you didn't know the exact answer.
12/29/2009 1:28 PM
colonels19
Posts: 4399 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By mlatsko1 on 12/29/2009
So what you're saying is that you'd like to produce a half *** result? The Recruiting Rankings are a big enough example as to why generalizations don't work. Save your effort unless you're going to do it right.
What I'm saying is, as far as rankings go, all of that stuff doesn't matter because its impossible to micro-manage every last little thing that every last HD coach does with their team, and if a coach rightly or wrongly wants to play a player out of position, then so be it...I chalk up this kind of thing as an everyday HD/sports happening that doesn't deserve to be included in a/my ranking system...its a "thems the breaks" situation. I'd love for you to show me a ranking system out there currently that takes into account every last little thing that happened....mlatsko typed words at 2:25 PM ET...who cares, it doesn't matter for ranking purposes. No ranking includes everything.
12/29/2009 1:29 PM
mlatsko1
Posts: 61 (0)
Hall of Famer
298 1 13
Prospect
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
12/29/2009 1:32 PM
zhawks
Posts: 881 (0)
Hall of Famer
208 66 38
Pro
Quote: Originally Posted By isack24 on 12/29/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/29/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By isack24 on 12/29/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 12/29/2009

I said exactly what CS said, I don't see how I am wrong? I said it won't be a significant help, they said it might help, aren't those one and the same.

How are "won't" and "might" the same thing?
It won't be a significant help. You are keying in on the wrong words.
No.

"Won't be a significant help."

"Might be a significant help."

Two different things.

Seriously, it is actually okay to admit that you didn't know something. I trust your experience because have a lot of it, but you don't know everything about this game.

I think what bugs some people in these situations is an absolute refusal to even budge on the possibility that you didn't know the exact answer.

And you are twisting CS's words, Where did they say it might be a significant help? They didn't.
12/29/2009 1:33 PM
mlatsko1
Posts: 61 (0)
Hall of Famer
298 1 13
Prospect
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
12/29/2009 1:34 PM
colonels19
Posts: 4399 (0)
Hall of Famer
78 90 3 1 168 2 1 11
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By mlatsko1 on 12/29/2009
There isn't a system and does that and there will not be a system that does that. All you're attempting to do is create another crap ranking system that doesn't account for everything. It only uses different criteria than the first crap system. (read: Top 25, RPI, etc) At the end of the day, the best coach is the 1 coach that wins the National Title, no exceptions
I've always held the contention in rankings, if you can't objectively quantify/measure it, it doesn't belong. I'm sure there are yays and nays to that comment, but that's how I've looked at rankings for the last 7+ years.

It is highly unlikely that WIS even peeps this, this argument is more about principle now more than anything and WIS would have to pay to use my formulas and I don't see that happening...so I'm doing this for fun currently. FWIW, WIS doesn't use a SOS format solely based on OTRs like I do, so it does use previously unused factors in that realm.

Your final sentence is inherently incorrect because the best teams/coaches don't always win. Winning the NC, says you're the national champion...it doesn't proclaim that you're the best team...see 1985 Villanova.
12/29/2009 1:48 PM
mlatsko1
Posts: 61 (0)
Hall of Famer
298 1 13
Prospect
This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
12/29/2009 1:59 PM
◂ Prev 1...3|4|5|6|7|8 Next ▸
What’s your source? Prove it! Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.