the press ruined HD. if seble doesnt get rid of it or seriously scale it down then he truly has no desire to genuinely improve the game.

I don't think it needs to be removed, just neutered a whole lot.

12 of the sweet 16 teams in phelan d1 run press or combo (most straight press). if you dont run press, something barely even used in real life, you severely hinder your chances of success in HD.

any of you who actually converse with seble, please share with him how awfully unrealistic the press results are and how little they resemble actual college hoops. share how bad this is for the present and future of HD.

if the new engine doesnt address the press effectiveness real quick i will start shedding teams, i've said this for a long time, and now the new engine is here.

I love how people just say "x amount of teams running the press in the NT." How about how many missed the NT compared to other sets to? Press is the most ran defence in HD, so of course the most successful teams will run it, but plenty also under preform and miss the post season. Why doesn't anyone mention them? If press wasn't the most ran set and they were commonly putting up these numbers of teams making it deep in the NT then yeah there is a problem. IMO, m2m is the most overpowered defence. Only reason I don't run it is because I'm to lazy to recruit for it.

Vandy, as furry asked. . what proportion of teams in total run Press in that world?

Specifically, what proportion of human controlled teams?

And more importantly, which team in the sweet 16 runs press that is in it just because they run press. I'd like to see this, because I've never seen a team dominate just because they ran press. I've seen teams dominate with every set because they are talented, not because of the set they ran. I'm not in that world, so show me these teams that are only in the sweet 16 because they run press. I wanna see how 'magic' it is. How it can turn no-talent teams into elite sweet 16 teams. Which teams would be worse off (not in the NT?) if they were to have ran m2m/zone?

The bigger point is that two equally talented teams, would the press team always win because they run press? The resounding answer is YES. I've had teams run press and made it to final 4 with juniors and freshman. My pal who plays took over a team and ran press and had bad players on it with no IQ and won the NT first year.

This past month for all my teams has been especially atrocious as my senior laden squads routinely turn the ball over 25+ times vs bad press teams with lower speed and athleticism, and low defense ratings.

So you can say "they are good teams, they would win anyway" and that is true. But will they almost always win vs equally talented teams? I've seen nothing that makes me think that there isn't a huge built in statistical advantage to running press vs anything else.

I've seen enough as well that shows equally talented teams m2m has the Edge. Look at Holy family in my conf. Talent wise I was better (ran press) and lost to him. In the NT, his last 4 games (went onto the NT title game) was vrs press teams. He won all before losing in the title game. You could argue each team was more talented. Yet he won? This is just one of the many examples people will ignore.



Obviously if you are turning it over that much then 1) You have a bad team. 2) You have a bad game plan. 3) You got hit with some bad random luck. It is more of what you did/didn't do over them running the press. This team I'm talking about ran press for years with no success (12 wins last season?) switched to m2m with no IQ's and did even better and went onto his first title game. Based on your logic turning a bad team into a great one with no IQ would make that set magic. It wasn't press, it was m2m. You can find so many more teams that went up against press and beat it. I can find you many games where I lost a game even though I was the better team running press, or flip it around and show you the times I was the worse team and knocked off a press team running m2m/zone.

What seble should do is take 2 evenly rated teams across the board (IQ's included, though with the only difference being one plays Man, the other FCP) and simulate them 1000 times and see what the stats say and post them in the forum. He's been rather open to suggestions in the beta test world and seems to want what's best for HD, so I'd like to think he'd be open to this idea.

I'd be curious to see these results on a division by division basis, where the teams that are matched would have ratings that make sense for that Division, i.e. guards in D3 have SP of 65, guards in D2 SP of 80, guards in D1 SP of 95, or something similar across the board to put the matchups in better context. There could be a hidden divisional component to the engine that makes FCP more advantageous at the D3 level vs. D1.

Quote: Originally posted by jdno on 5/16/2010What seble should do is take 2 evenly rated teams across the board (IQ's included, though with the only difference being one plays Man, the other FCP) and simulate them 1000 times and see what the stats say and post them in the forum. He's been rather open to suggestions in the beta test world and seems to want what's best for HD, so I'd like to think he'd be open to this idea.

I'd be curious to see these results on a division by division basis, where the teams that are matched would have ratings that make sense for that Division, i.e. guards in D3 have SP of 65, guards in D2 SP of 80, guards in D1 SP of 95, or something similar across the board to put the matchups in better context. There could be a hidden divisional component to the engine that makes FCP more advantageous at the D3 level vs. D1.

Wouldn't be a good test though> FOr example, a good man to man team needs much higher D ratings than a good Press team. And a good zone team would want high block ratings. .and so on. SO two exactly the same rating teams running different defenses isn't really that good of a test.

Quote: Originally Posted By jdno on 5/16/2010
What seble should do is take 2 evenly rated teams across the board (IQ's included, though with the only difference being one plays Man, the other FCP) and simulate them 1000 times and see what the stats say and post them in the forum. He's been rather open to suggestions in the beta test world and seems to want what's best for HD, so I'd like to think he'd be open to this idea.

I'd be curious to see these results on a division by division basis, where the teams that are matched would have ratings that make sense for that Division, i.e. guards in D3 have SP of 65, guards in D2 SP of 80, guards in D1 SP of 95, or something similar across the board to put the matchups in better context. There could be a hidden divisional component to the engine that makes FCP more advantageous at the D3 level vs. D1.

What AB said. My press team is obviously going to have more ath/speed, which means lower per, def, sb. My zone team is obviously going to have more reb/def/sb, which means slightly less ath/speed and maybe lower secondary cores (per/bh/passing on a guard, or lp on my bigs.) In m2m, my teams will have more ath/speed then zone, but less then my press teams. We would also have a little bit more cores then press, but probably a little less reb then zone etc.... So while evenly matched teams 1 team could play better at zone, m2m, or press it just depends what the strength and weaknesses are. It wouldn't exactly show anything that proves anything one way or another.

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True enough. I think part of the reason Press is so popular is that it is very impressive looking when it works, and can produce blowouts(Both ways) and upsets. And people remember the times 'superior'(Their team) teams lose to press teams, but will forget the times that they lose..

Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 5/16/2010True enough. I think part of the reason Press is so popular is that it is very impressive looking when it works, and can produce blowouts(Both ways) and upsets. And people remember the times 'superior'(Their team) teams lose to press teams, but will forget the times that they lose.

I think its most popular just because so much of the top coaches run it. I know when swamp ran his -5 zone and people saw his decent success with how bad he was, coaches tried it. If 90% of the people used it, they'd only look at the 4 in the final four and not the teams getting blown out. Suddenly the -5 would be magic, everyone would use it and the success of it would be inflated because of the % that run it. Press is no different.