Team Building Process - After the fact comments Topic

shaybee
Posts: 590 (0)
Hall of Famer
876 14
Rookie
Posted by tjefferson on 8/4/2011 11:39:00 AM (view original):
I have a little over 1600 in one of the less crazy parks at $120m and I thought I was cutting it close.
I think I'm in trouble.
8/4/2011 12:39 PM
tjefferson
Posts: 590 (0)
Hall of Famer
172 1 71
Rookie

OTOH I didn't pay nearly as much attention to OAV# at $120m as others and just took the best/cheapest pitchers with lower HR rates. So maybe I'm in trouble too.

8/4/2011 12:43 PM
Jtpsops
Posts: 15509 (0)
Hall of Famer
744 1 2 2 144
Prospect
Posted by ncmusician_7 on 8/4/2011 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Compare the 83 and 75 Gary Carter.  That's a good example of the "catcher loophole".
Doesn't necessarily help the argument.  Clearly '75 is the bigger bargain, but '83 Carter also has multiple positions, and his defense (though not a big deal in a catcher) is significantly better, which accounts for the price increase.  That doesn't mean you're not paying for his arm in the '75 version.

The correct comparison would be, are you paying the same for '75 Carter as you would be for a similar OF with no Catcher ranking. Or a similar catcher with a weak arm.
8/4/2011 2:55 PM
Jtpsops
Posts: 15509 (0)
Hall of Famer
744 1 2 2 144
Prospect
And when it comes to this league, is having Carter in your OF really an advantage, even at a reduced cost?  I think that's a big part of the argument as well.
8/4/2011 2:59 PM
tjefferson
Posts: 590 (0)
Hall of Famer
172 1 71
Rookie
I think the thing with the catcher defense is that you can get guys with D/D/A+ type ratings who the sim sees as overall mediocre to bad defensively and prices accordingly - but in reality catcher range and fielding don't matter nearly as much as arm, so they play much better. That's my hypothesis, at least.
8/4/2011 3:11 PM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
Show
mensu1954
Posts: 12000 (8)
Hall of Famer
2384 3 4
Hall of Famer
I drafted 1546 IP for the 120M theme and don't feel worried that fatigue will become so great it can't be managed.  I normally draft about 1460-1480 IP for normal 120M themes and never have fatigue problems.  Granted...this is 120M on steroids with all of the offensive parks and extreme batting averages.  My only concern is that I only drafted 10 pitchers instead of 11.
8/4/2011 3:26 PM
schwarze
Posts: 44816 (1)
Hall of Famer
1842 74 4 1 1
Hall of Famer
I think you hit the nail on the head tjefferson.  For a bad range/fielding catcher with a good arm, you are paying for one aspect of defense.  For a regular position player in this theme, you are paying for both range and fielding.  So there is a slight value. 

I actually reviewed to see how many usable players that could be realistically considered for this loophole.  I knew about Foxx, but I didn't see a whole lot of other players, so I let it go.  I don't think it will make a huge difference.
8/4/2011 3:27 PM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
Show
id_203
Posts: 353 (0)
Hall of Famer
64 50 20 1
Prospect
Like a few others mentioned I signed up for this for the learning experience. I definitely learned a lot and after reading this thread i think some of my teams are in trouble (especially by $70m team). I'll only talk about my $110m because I think it is competitive and I thought about it a little differently than most of the posts I've read.
 
$110m Technically Correct Herman Bronkie '10-'22
 
I tried a lot of teams but was have trouble finding one I was comfortable with (I had Cedeno, Clemens, Maddux and Grove teams built). The requirement I had the most problem with was not twisting my star veteran. The 10 year gap made it difficult to get a good season in a stadium you want.  The breakthrough came when I realized I did not need a 'star' veteran.  Enter the $400k 1922 Herman Bronkie from the St. Louis Browns. I found him because I wanted to use the 1910 Cleveland Naps (Joss and Cy Young among others) and he had 11 PAs for the Naps in 1910 (thank you Baseball Reference). 
 
Looking at my team again now, the 22 Browns did not bring a ton to the table, but a there were a few key players (Sisler, Baby Doll Jacobson) and a good stadium. The '10 Naps are loaded with twistable players. Unlike schwarze (who also used the '10 Naps), I chose the '13 Willie Mitchell as my #3 starter and using '15 Falkenberg as a shutdown closer (52 ip, OAV# .192, WHIP#, .94)
 
Peckinpaugh was probably a better choice for a '10 Naps twist and the Collins/Speaker teams look dominant but I think Bronkie will hold his own. Definitely a fun theme.

(w/o <$300k)
PAs 5443, AVG .359, OBP .414, SLG .509
IPs 1462, OAV .215, WHIP 1.02, HR/9 .05
8/4/2011 3:36 PM
Jtpsops
Posts: 15509 (0)
Hall of Famer
744 1 2 2 144
Prospect
Posted by mensu1954 on 8/4/2011 3:26:00 PM (view original):
I drafted 1546 IP for the 120M theme and don't feel worried that fatigue will become so great it can't be managed.  I normally draft about 1460-1480 IP for normal 120M themes and never have fatigue problems.  Granted...this is 120M on steroids with all of the offensive parks and extreme batting averages.  My only concern is that I only drafted 10 pitchers instead of 11.
Your owner history and W-L record are clearly better than mine, so I would be very out of place saying you're wrong.  But I just don't see how anyone could survive even a normal $120mil league with 1,550 IP and not have fatigue be a problem. I guess it ultimately comes down to the quality of your pitching and hoping that pitching prevails more often than expected against offense heavy lineups.
8/4/2011 4:01 PM (edited)
ncmusician_7
Posts: 1832 (0)
Hall of Famer
70 164 12 18
All Star
Posted by Jtpsops on 8/4/2011 2:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ncmusician_7 on 8/4/2011 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Compare the 83 and 75 Gary Carter.  That's a good example of the "catcher loophole".
Doesn't necessarily help the argument.  Clearly '75 is the bigger bargain, but '83 Carter also has multiple positions, and his defense (though not a big deal in a catcher) is significantly better, which accounts for the price increase.  That doesn't mean you're not paying for his arm in the '75 version.

The correct comparison would be, are you paying the same for '75 Carter as you would be for a similar OF with no Catcher ranking. Or a similar catcher with a weak arm.
83 Carter's defense isn't significantly better.  As long as the catcher fielding grade isn't D-, it's basically meaningless (just like 1B fielding grades are basically meaningless).
8/4/2011 5:37 PM
just4me
Posts: 4769 (0)
Hall of Famer
935 1 4 2 2
Hall of Famer
I didn't have any fatigue issues in the $120m or $140m leagues in 2009, and I used less than 1400 IP in both (won 90 in the $140m with 1386 IP). In 2010 I tried to push that further and went with 1301 IP at $140 and 1306 at $120 and ran into unmanageable fatigue. I don't expect to need more than 1400 even in coors this time at $120, but took extra IP (bringing me just under 1500 IP) because I went with lower quality pitchers. In a $255m league I don't use a mopup and only bring a little more than 1600 ip.
8/4/2011 5:49 PM
mensu1954
Posts: 12000 (8)
Hall of Famer
2384 3 4
Hall of Famer
This is from a recently finished 120M league; CLWECW's 24 Extreme Themes-Season XXV

Here are the real life stats for my pitching staff.  Note:  No trades or WW moves are allowed in this league.

Player SN T GP GS W L SV IP BFP H ER HR BB SO OAV WHIP ERA HBP WP BK
Joss, Addie 1908 R 44 37 25 12 2 342.0 1272 244 44 2 32 137 .197 .81 1.16 2 6 0
Mathewson, Christy 1909 R 39 35 26 6 2 292.0 1057 203 37 2 38 158 .200 .83 1.14 0 4 0
Bernhard, Bill 1902 R 32 29 20 6 1 259.0 980 201 63 5 40 68 .216 .94 2.20 6 5 0
Schupp, Ferdie 1916 L 32 12 10 3 1 150.0 560 84 15 1 39 92 .167 .83 .90 5 2 0
Chamberlain, Elton 1888 R 17 17 13 2 0 135.0 514 73 24 1 32 68 .152 .79 1.61 0 0 0
Toney, Fred 1918 R 14 12 8 3 1 112.0 401 72 21 1 9 25 .192 .73 1.69 3 0 0
Northrop, Jake 1918 R 9 5 7 1 0 53.0 196 34 8 0 4 5 .183 .73 1.35 0 0 0
McQuillan, George 1907 R 7 6 4 0 0 46.0 160 23 3 0 12 31 .158 .78 .66 1 1 0
Adams, Babe 1924 R 10 3 3 1 0 42.0 163 33 5 1 3 5 .209 .86 1.13 0 1 0
Tiefenauer, Bobby 1963 R 12 0 1 1 2 30.0 110 20 4 1 4 22 .194 .82 1.21 0 1 0
Bridges, Marshall 1960 L 15 0 4 0 2 27.0 99 15 3 1 7 27 .161 .83 1.07 0 0 0
Totals -- -- 231 156 121 35 11 1,488.0 5512 1002 227 15 220 638 .191 0.82 1.37 17 20 0

Here are my league stats at the end of the season.  Home park is the Polo Grounds, so only a slight pitcher's park.  (0.98)

Regular Season Pitching SimStats (Totals)
Player SN T G GS CG SHO W L SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO OAV OBP SLG WHIP ERA
Joss, Addie 1908 R 55 55 0 0 24 16 0 0 350.7 410 166 144 6 47 77 .289 .313 .352 1.30 3.70
Mathewson, Christy 1909 R 55 54 0 0 22 15 0 0 302.3 321 139 123 6 72 88 .272 .312 .347 1.30 3.66
Bernhard, Bill 1902 R 53 53 0 0 14 13 0 0 261.0 294 140 121 10 65 45 .282 .329 .384 1.38 4.17
Chamberlain, Elton 1888 R 82 0 0 0 12 4 7 7 131.0 109 46 40 5 53 44 .223 .302 .293 1.24 2.75
Schupp, Ferdie 1916 L 84 0 0 0 5 1 11 12 123.0 96 50 48 4 66 67 .216 .320 .288 1.32 3.51
Toney, Fred 1918 R 82 0 0 0 9 5 7 13 97.0 103 37 37 0 14 25 .271 .303 .345 1.21 3.43
Northrop, Jake 1918 R 60 0 0 0 5 1 7 10 58.3 51 19 18 1 12 6 .233 .272 .297 1.08 2.78
McQuillan, George 1907 R 57 0 0 0 1 6 3 9 44.3 37 21 19 0 21 19 .223 .316 .277 1.31 3.86
Adams, Babe 1924 R 47 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 40.0 57 25 23 3 5 7 .324 .346 .466 1.55 5.18
Tiefenauer, Bobby 1963 R 49 0 0 0 2 2 1 1 29.7 35 14 14 2 7 17 .289 .328 .430 1.42 4.25
Bridges, Marshall 1960 L 43 0 0 0 3 2 6 7 20.3 24 15 14 1 13 23 .286 .384 .369 1.82 6.20
TEAM TOTALS -- -- 667 162 0 0 97 65 44 61 1,457.7 1537 672 601 38 375 418 .269 .316 .348 1.31 3.71
 



At the end of the playoffs, only 4 of my 11 pitchers were at less than 100%...the last starter and the 3 relievers that worked the last game.  (I lost in the 2nd round)

I spent less than half of my money--$57.7M on pitching and never had any major fatigue problems.


CLWECW also runs a 140M version of the theme that has played 119 games currently.  I drafted 1504 IP and only 2 of my pitchers are below 100%...the last starter and the reliever that finished the game.  It can be done.

That being said...I expect to possibly suffer slight fatigue with this team, but nothing that can't be handled.
 
 
8/4/2011 6:00 PM
schwarze
Posts: 44816 (1)
Hall of Famer
1842 74 4 1 1
Hall of Famer
I hope you're right.  I only have 1431 good innings (plus 90 IP of mopup).  Was a DH is use in the aforementioned league? 
8/4/2011 6:26 PM
◂ Prev 123456 Next ▸
Team Building Process - After the fact comments Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2025 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.