Posted by BlueBladeAce on 9/14/2017 8:37:00 PM (view original):
@moy23 (Quote11652 too long to include andI cannot shorten it)

Hilary is okay with partial birth abortion. She is ok with men marrying men, Women marrying women. Then there's the issue of what bathroom a guy( who thinks he is a woman) should use. The country is NUTS under the left wing.. Trump knows that the terrorist threat to America is big and very real. The left was in denial.. and I can find Obama quotes that prove this.. but I won't waste time on it. That's why Trump got in. Get used to it.

Edited... I get ya now. Going to disagree though...


Trump is not against gay rights. Never has been. Trump also celebrated Caitlin Jenner using the women's bathroom in Trump Tower during the primaries. Look it up.

Trump got in because people are sick of Washington as usual (the swamp).... And Hillary is a Washington Elite running on Obama's I know better than thou Ivory Tower platform.

Posted by laramiebob on 9/14/2017 2:50:00 PM (view original):
Old when the Country wanted new........... and that's NOT Obama's fault. He was perceived as fresh and new.......... which is debatable I suppose.
She was old in EVERY sense of the word. Establishment in an extremely non establishment mood.

On top of that she was/is hated by millions of OTHER old folks............. who vote. Most of them white. (winkie here)
Backlash........... now THAT may be Obama's fault in an odd second degree manner.

I as said regarding Obama:

Three major issues IMO during his presidency:

#1) Debt went up tremendously

#2) Military power perception declined significantly -- see the Middle East, Russia and N. Korea not being scared of the US.

#3) Race relations really suffered. See Ferguson. See Baltimore.


Rightly or wrongly he is held responsible.

Anyone that argues against debt going up during Obama's term doesn't know what they are talking about. We were in a recession driven by lack of demand. Debt going up was the only reasonable option.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/15/2017 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Anyone that argues against debt going up during Obama's term doesn't know what they are talking about. We were in a recession driven by lack of demand. Debt going up was the only reasonable option.

So, what you're saying is "Anything good that happened was because of O'Bumble", but "Anything bad that happened was out of his control". This is the kind of BS, that comes from both sides, that makes so, so many people hate politics and grave an "outsider" to vote for.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/15/2017 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Anyone that argues against debt going up during Obama's term doesn't know what they are talking about. We were in a recession driven by lack of demand. Debt going up was the only reasonable option.

Wrong - you don't know what you are talking about. Dumbass.

No, I'm right. When demand is cratering, as it was when Obama took office, taking actions that reduce debt—cutting spending or increasing taxes—only slow the economy more.

And that's before you consider the fact that the recession increases use of federal safety net programs like welfare and food stamps.

Under BO the debt increased 86% or $9Trn. I agree that 1/3 would have happened because Bush was a dumbass and the recession took place but I will not agree that he could not have curbed it somewhat.

He never even discussed, had a plan, did anything to address that eventually we have to fight this rising debt and that raising the debt ceiling is not always the answer. He completely ignored it and again I will agree that 1/3 is not on him. I will even acquiesce that 50% is not on him but the other 50% is. Just because Bush was awful in terms of finances didn't mean BO had to follow suit. He did.

I'm not blaming either administration. You're ignoring reality.

Regardless of who is/was president, if the economy crashes because demand disappears, cutting spending and/or raising taxes to fight debt is stupid because it does more harm to the economy.

Posted by all3 on 9/15/2017 10:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/15/2017 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Anyone that argues against debt going up during Obama's term doesn't know what they are talking about. We were in a recession driven by lack of demand. Debt going up was the only reasonable option.

So, what you're saying is "Anything good that happened was because of O'Bumble", but "Anything bad that happened was out of his control". This is the kind of BS, that comes from both sides, that makes so, so many people hate politics and grave an "outsider" to vote for.

I agree that this kind of BS causes many to hate politics, but it would take a lot more than this to get me to ever cast a vote for Donald Trump.

Posted by wylie715 on 9/15/2017 12:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 9/15/2017 10:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/15/2017 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Anyone that argues against debt going up during Obama's term doesn't know what they are talking about. We were in a recession driven by lack of demand. Debt going up was the only reasonable option.

So, what you're saying is "Anything good that happened was because of O'Bumble", but "Anything bad that happened was out of his control". This is the kind of BS, that comes from both sides, that makes so, so many people hate politics and grave an "outsider" to vote for.

I agree that this kind of BS causes many to hate politics, but it would take a lot more than this to get me to ever cast a vote for Donald Trump.

If that's what I was saying, then yeah, that's stupid. But, as usual, all3 is completely retarded. That isn't what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is, allowing the debt to grow was a key ingredient in the economic recovery. Had Bush and then Obama focused on cutting spending/raising taxes during the crash, we would have been/would still be fuuuuuuuucked.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/15/2017 11:46:00 AM (view original):
I'm not blaming either administration. You're ignoring reality.

Regardless of who is/was president, if the economy crashes because demand disappears, cutting spending and/or raising taxes to fight debt is stupid because it does more harm to the economy.

Reality is Bush went into Iraq (stupid) and didn't monitor the mortgage market/I Bank regulations...another mistake. Dumbass. He and his administration are 100% to blame. Obama inherited a mess but I don't see anything that he did to fix the mess:

-- He spent all his political capital on that stupid healthcare reform that neither party likes and both want to amend.
-- He went overboard with his regulations, which froze credit and slowed the recovery. In my job alone the compliance work that is required is costly and mind boggling.
-- He left the World with the rise of Isis, mess in Syria, rise of Russian power (see Crimea); stronger N. Korea; Angered Israel with his stupid Iran deal
-- Under his leadership the racial tensions rose ridiculously high. See BLM, see Ferguson, see Baltimore.
-- He was supportive of the job killing TPP


Now you will come out and try to defend all this rhetoric. But the end result was the Country was angry and elected someone who is totally disparate from him in Donald Trump.

Posted by wylie715 on 9/15/2017 12:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 9/15/2017 10:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/15/2017 10:11:00 AM (view original):
Anyone that argues against debt going up during Obama's term doesn't know what they are talking about. We were in a recession driven by lack of demand. Debt going up was the only reasonable option.

So, what you're saying is "Anything good that happened was because of O'Bumble", but "Anything bad that happened was out of his control". This is the kind of BS, that comes from both sides, that makes so, so many people hate politics and grave an "outsider" to vote for.

I agree that this kind of BS causes many to hate politics, but it would take a lot more than this to get me to ever cast a vote for Donald Trump.

Your alternative was HRC, who just said that Comey cost her the election because after he reopened the investigation she said "husbands and boyfriends told their significant others...see she is going to jail don't bother voting for her"....basically she is saying women don't have a mind of their own and listen to the men in their lives to tell them what to do.

Hilarious. If she wants someone to blame she should look in the mirror.

Posted by cccp1014 on 9/15/2017 12:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/15/2017 11:46:00 AM (view original):
I'm not blaming either administration. You're ignoring reality.

Regardless of who is/was president, if the economy crashes because demand disappears, cutting spending and/or raising taxes to fight debt is stupid because it does more harm to the economy.

Reality is Bush went into Iraq (stupid) and didn't monitor the mortgage market/I Bank regulations...another mistake. Dumbass. He and his administration are 100% to blame. Obama inherited a mess but I don't see anything that he did to fix the mess:

-- He spent all his political capital on that stupid healthcare reform that neither party likes and both want to amend.
-- He went overboard with his regulations, which froze credit and slowed the recovery. In my job alone the compliance work that is required is costly and mind boggling.
-- He left the World with the rise of Isis, mess in Syria, rise of Russian power (see Crimea); stronger N. Korea; Angered Israel with his stupid Iran deal
-- Under his leadership the racial tensions rose ridiculously high. See BLM, see Ferguson, see Baltimore.
-- He was supportive of the job killing TPP


Now you will come out and try to defend all this rhetoric. But the end result was the Country was angry and elected someone who is totally disparate from him in Donald Trump.

You're moving the goalposts.

We're specifically talking about the debt. Do you or do you not agree that taking actions to reduce the debt (cutting spending/raising taxes) would have caused further damage to an economy in trouble?

Posted by bad_luck on 9/15/2017 12:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 9/15/2017 12:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/15/2017 11:46:00 AM (view original):
I'm not blaming either administration. You're ignoring reality.

Regardless of who is/was president, if the economy crashes because demand disappears, cutting spending and/or raising taxes to fight debt is stupid because it does more harm to the economy.

Reality is Bush went into Iraq (stupid) and didn't monitor the mortgage market/I Bank regulations...another mistake. Dumbass. He and his administration are 100% to blame. Obama inherited a mess but I don't see anything that he did to fix the mess:

-- He spent all his political capital on that stupid healthcare reform that neither party likes and both want to amend.
-- He went overboard with his regulations, which froze credit and slowed the recovery. In my job alone the compliance work that is required is costly and mind boggling.
-- He left the World with the rise of Isis, mess in Syria, rise of Russian power (see Crimea); stronger N. Korea; Angered Israel with his stupid Iran deal
-- Under his leadership the racial tensions rose ridiculously high. See BLM, see Ferguson, see Baltimore.
-- He was supportive of the job killing TPP


Now you will come out and try to defend all this rhetoric. But the end result was the Country was angry and elected someone who is totally disparate from him in Donald Trump.

You're moving the goalposts.

We're specifically talking about the debt. Do you or do you not agree that taking actions to reduce the debt (cutting spending/raising taxes) would have caused further damage to an economy in trouble?

Yes, in the first two years not in the final six years. My problem is that he increased the debt without a plan to ever pay it back or decrease it. He lowered the deficit via the stupid sequester. I admitted that 50% was due to Bush but I hold him accountable for the other 50%.

--- He did nothing to curb corporate inversions
--- He did nothing to stop jobs from going overseas
--- He lowered military spend

So while he increased the debt, what did the country truly get out of it other than an inflated stock market?