Flames Thread: Scoring is overrated Topic

nickhead
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Agreed.. we should just trade all of our draft picks for the next 20 years... better return compared to how we draft.

The city wants to win and thats all they care about... I wouldnt waste my money on tickets if they were just going to lose so they could have a good draft pick.. Sutter f*cked up...bad... he waited too long to trade Phiona after the bs off the ice, he never got any offence until it was too late and then they didnt pan out...

but at least he did something, I will say I would rather be in the posiiton we are, than have draft picks... sitting around doing nothing and missing the playoffs is horrendous

I want him fired, but at least he didnt just sit around and do jack sh1t
4/12/2010 10:21 AM
holer
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No, we need to draft better. And that starts with not having a mediocre team slowly creep down even further in the standings over a 10 year period. Get value from the players you can get value from and build a new strong core. See Chicago Blackhawks for reference. Giving up on your ability to draft is a death sentence, especially in a cap enforced league. If a primary problem is Calgary's scouting, fire them and get someone who can recognize talent. See Detroit Red Wings for reference. The "Calgary fans just want to see winner" attitude will not apply to this team. It will only cause stupid reactionary decisions by management on overpriced, sub-par talent that will only serve to maintain the present level of mediocrity. I want to see a winner in Calgary just as much as you do, but I also want to see it done right.

4/12/2010 11:52 AM
aginor
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Flames 1st round picks since 2000

2009 - D Tim Erixon (Still in Sweden)
2008 - C Greg Nemisz (OHL - Windsor Spitfires 51 GP - G 34 A 36 PiM 50)
2007 - C Mikael Backlund (Finished with NHL club this season)
2006 - G Leland Irving (Finished the season in the ECHL)
2005 - D Matt Pelech (With Farm Club - 42 GP G 2 A 8 PiM 125)
2004 - RW Kris Chucko (With Farm Club - 41 GP - G 9 A 9 PiM 56)
2003 - D Dion Phaneuf (Trade to Toronto this season)
2002 - LW Eric Nystrom (Played with NHL club - UFA now)
2001 - RW Chuck Kobasew (Traded to Boston 06/07, now with Wild)
2000 - G Brent Krahn (Now in the Stars farm system)
4/12/2010 12:28 PM
nickhead
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I dont care how its done, just get it done.

I woudl rather give up the entire future of an organization for a stanley cup, than worry about 10 years from now.

I know what you are saying, but this city doesnt have the patience and either do I, its been 21 years since we had any level of success...

Screw the draft... get the right pieces and do it now.. second place in 03-04 was not good enough.. just the 1st loser.
4/12/2010 12:28 PM
aginor
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Actually nick I'd say the pressure to win NOW is most likely the reason the team is in the mess it is. Kneejerk moves and lack patience with youngsters has resulted in.... well exactly where they are right now. What? Let's take a page from the Rangers manual and go sign a bunch of washed up vets OR over priced players (more Kotaliks). Yep that has worked so well for them... Let's face things don't get this way over night and you're not going to fix them over night either. Here's the scenerio:

At present the time they have just under 54 million to the cap for next season for 18 players. Cap next season is 57.7. So they have about 4 mill to do the following:

Nystrom & White are valuable, I'm sure they are wanted... Will cost about 3 mill total for both etc. Now that means 20 players with under a million

Still need a back up goalie....and still need to have enough players around when injuries hit.......

They need to make room... Flames are not a team to buy out a contract BUT I don't think they've got any choice! Kotalik is owed 6 mill over the next 2 season...(frees up 3 million).... Who else 'can' you trade and get something reasonable back... Hagmann has value and only 3 mill contract. Thing is when you trade a vet with a $$$ contract, you usually have to take a vet with a $$$ contract back (so the $$$ all works out for the cap etc). So that means, can you get somebody in return that is BETTER??? Not likely! At least not without adding picks or prospects to the deal.. neither of which the Flames have really....

There you have it in a nutshell...

4/12/2010 2:19 PM
nickhead
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I see they have 49 mil to the cap next season

And I am agreeing they are messed up because of the pressure to win now.. Sutter tinkered way too much... built a good team, that was a top contender in 05-06... but got eliminated in the first round.. then the revolving door of coaches started and player messin
4/12/2010 3:15 PM
aginor
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Nope per the Calgary Herald etc, it's just under 54 mill to the cap next season.

In Calgary, pressure to win from fan base is HUGE! Also, what happened in the mid 90s when the team missed the post season several times in a row. The economic problems they had. So between the fans and the fear.... pressure to win has caused Sutter to make some rather hasty moves.

Now despite HOW they got here, the only solution is take a slow careful job of rebuilding things. It will most likely mean being very bad for a couple of seasons but let's face it... what other choice do they have?

But this means are different man at the helm, otherwise....

4/12/2010 4:02 PM
nickhead
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http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=CGY&season=0910
4/12/2010 4:20 PM
aginor
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Include the bonuses... comes to 53.875 Million total for your Estimated Payroll. With a cap of 57.7 next year that leaves just under 4 million to play with.
4/12/2010 4:39 PM
nickhead
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thanks, thought I was missing something, went and read the article after you cited it/
4/12/2010 5:27 PM
aginor
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A friend made a suggestion... They should trade Kotalik to the KHL for a bag of pucks!!
4/12/2010 7:48 PM
holer
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Quote: Originally Posted By aginor on 4/12/2010
Actually nick I'd say the pressure to win NOW is most likely the reason the team is in the mess it is. Kneejerk moves and lack patience with youngsters has resulted in.... well exactly where they are right now. What? Let's take a page from the Rangers manual and go sign a bunch of washed up vets OR over priced players (more Kotaliks). Yep that has worked so well for them... Let's face things don't get this way over night and you're not going to fix them over night either. Here's the scenerio:

At present the time they have just under 54 million to the cap for next season for 18 players. Cap next season is 57.7. So they have about 4 mill to do the following:

Nystrom & White are valuable, I'm sure they are wanted... Will cost about 3 mill total for both etc. Now that means 20 players with under a million

Still need a back up goalie....and still need to have enough players around when injuries hit.......

They need to make room... Flames are not a team to buy out a contract BUT I don't think they've got any choice! Kotalik is owed 6 mill over the next 2 season...(frees up 3 million).... Who else 'can' you trade and get something reasonable back... Hagmann has value and only 3 mill contract. Thing is when you trade a vet with a $$$ contract, you usually have to take a vet with a $$$ contract back (so the $$$ all works out for the cap etc). So that means, can you get somebody in return that is BETTER??? Not likely! At least not without adding picks or prospects to the deal.. neither of which the Flames have really....

There you have it in a nutshell...





Bingo.

4/12/2010 11:42 PM
aginor
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I remember the former Blue Jay GM J.P. Riccardi when it was pretty clear that he would be let go at the end of the season last year; saying he would NOT make a deal just to save his job etc... Well that is advice Sutter should heed. I mean the trade with Toronto was not a bad one... the trades afterward this one made NO SENSE!! Sutter in panic mode!! Where was the possible benefit with the trade with Rangers.. actually quite the opposite! Deadline deal to get Staios???? Another D-Man just what they needed...??
4/13/2010 10:58 AM
nickhead
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I thought Johnson was better than Staios too.. especially salary wise.

At least he finally admitted it was dressing room crap that led to the trades

Your apparent stud D man sleeping with the nice guys wife could lead to that... a 9 game losing streak could do that.. no **** sherlock

He still holds that we are a better team on paper... time for him to go
4/13/2010 11:41 AM
aginor
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Well, Sutter is looking for an excuse. The dressing room stuff is the usual fall back position. All teams have some 'dressing room' stuff , give me a break.

Like I said the Toronto trade made sense from a 'team' prespective and the 'locker room' prespective as well. That's one deal...what about some the others.....Were Prust and Jokin' a problem?

Being better on paper doesn't mean crap. It's being better on the ICE that counts. Again another Sutter Excuse...tired of them..
4/13/2010 12:32 PM
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