Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 4:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2019 4:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 4:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2019 4:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 4:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2019 4:13:00 PM (view original):
KO, you agree that there are at least some situations where abortion should be allowed, right?

If I concede that the 1% of abortions that pose a legitimate threat on the mother's life are justified, will you concede that the 99% of the other abortions aren't?

No.

I'm trying to see where you draw your line. It's hard to take your claim that abortion is murder seriously if you think it's OK in some situations.

I think abortion is wrong in all cases. If a woman has uterine cancer and the baby dies during treatment, that is quite tragic but it is different than abortion.

So, just to be clear, if you had it your way, there is no situation where you would allow a legal abortion?

Yep.

Oh, but what about rape? Not the baby's fault. Find the rapist and cut off his genitals.

Sorry Coach, but your position is clearly a very extreme position. Very few Americans would support the banning of ALL abortions including rape, etc.

Your decision to put this issue forward for debate flies in the face of your stated reason for this thread.
There can be no rational debate when half the debate takes an extreme position and insists it is just so.

That's Trump's style of "deal making" and it only works on those willing to be bullied.
Which is why Trump will have to declare a BS National emergency in a lame attempt to fund his stupid useless wall............. Pelosi ain't gonna be bullied.

More dysfunction and wasted taxpayer dollars ahead as the whole wall idea ends up in the Courts and nothing happens............ again.
So much losing by us taxpayers!

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/6/2019 4:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 2/6/2019 4:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/6/2019 3:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 2:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 2/6/2019 2:22:00 PM (view original):
Bah, you're overgeneralizing. I'm a social moderate and a fiscal conservative.

And a Republican.

Maybe. I just have little faith in either party to do the right thing. I'm not saying that everyone in that party are bad people. Hell, I think Dino and B_L are good people and they are as far from me on the political spectrum as they come. I don't think supporting abortion makes them bad people. I think that view is bad, but I don't think they are bad people. Just like I think George Washington was a good man despite the fact that he owned slaves which was bad.

Are you serious KO? You think they are good people? Wow?!?!??!!

bad_luck who called all Trump voter idiots and dino who said he would commit fake suicide and banned people in his little webpage and has been banned from pariticipating in theme leagues on this site?

Your operational definition of "good" differs from mine.

and you said any Jew who is a democrat is a traitor, which is just a stupid a statement as BL's any Trump voter is an idiot. Y
And yet I still think you're a good person. People can say stupid things. That doesn't make them bad people. I've said plenty of stupid things. So have you. What makes someone a bad person is their actions, not what they say.

Agreed but I am not banned from participating in Prog. Theme Leagues in WIFS

i9 just beat the great kallison in a world series...down 3 - 1...holy kallison.....ha.

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 4:36:00 PM (view original):
Viability is a weak argument. The guy in a coma is not viable. You have already admitted he is a person. The fetus is every bit as "viable" as the guy in the coma.

a person in a coma for 9 years sometimes comes out of it and sometimes they say they can hear.
a fetus unable to live on its own has never been a person according to the supreme court and in fact is not a person according to the supreme court.....thats why abortion is not murder.
viable is a medical term....a person in a coma already passed the viability test when born...it is a person unable to live without assistance...im not " viable " without my metformin...ill die...im still viable.
abortion is a tough pill to swallow for those whose definition of what is a person is at odds with the current legal definition.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/6/2019 4:36:00 PM (view original):
It is interesting that we as men are debating this because there aren't any laws that tell men what they can and cannot do with their bodies. I am pro choice but I do see the pro life argument. I think once a baby is born though that is a person and cannot be aborted. Did I read correctly that NY and VA disagree with that mantra?

um...am I missing something? How can you abort a baby after it is born, if you even wanted to?

there is a guy suing his parents for giving birth to him without his consent......i guess he never had the freedom to say no......and he has no standing to now object.
one day there is going to be a person with horrible defects that were discovered early on that sues his or her parents for not aborting him and subjecting him/her to a life of excruciating suffering and it will go far in the court system.

if a baby is born without a brain but it breathes what should be done.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2019 5:11:00 PM (view original):
And I don't understand how this is so hard for you to grasp. The ability to survive separately is pretty ******* crucial to the argument that someone is a separate person.

The fetus can be removed (and die). It cannot be separated and survive. It's not a separate person.

You really struggle at times to think logically.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2019 5:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/6/2019 5:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2019 5:11:00 PM (view original):
And I don't understand how this is so hard for you to grasp. The ability to survive separately is pretty ******* crucial to the argument that someone is a separate person.

The fetus can be removed (and die). It cannot be separated and survive. It's not a separate person.

You never answered me. If it is week 28 and the fetus can survive then is abortion OK or not?

It's somewhat irrelevant. Less than 0.10% (not ten percent, one-tenth of a percent) of abortions are performed after 24 weeks and almost all of them were due to fetal anomalies.

No one is having voluntary late-term abortions.

So? The rare case is irrelevant? I remember someone only a few pages back asking me about a rare case. Can't have it both ways. Rare cases are relevant or they're not.

Posted by dino27 on 2/6/2019 6:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 4:36:00 PM (view original):
Viability is a weak argument. The guy in a coma is not viable. You have already admitted he is a person. The fetus is every bit as "viable" as the guy in the coma.

a person in a coma for 9 years sometimes comes out of it and sometimes they say they can hear.
a fetus unable to live on its own has never been a person according to the supreme court and in fact is not a person according to the supreme court.....thats why abortion is not murder.
viable is a medical term....a person in a coma already passed the viability test when born...it is a person unable to live without assistance...im not " viable " without my metformin...ill die...im still viable.
abortion is a tough pill to swallow for those whose definition of what is a person is at odds with the current legal definition.

This is way off base even in legal terms.

I stated in the first post that we all agree that the supreme court gets cases wrong. If we accept it as gospel, then we must accept Plessy v. Ferguson. We don't.

"It's a person unable to live without assistance" What do you think a fetus is? It's the exact same thing. A person unable to live without assistance.

If a fetus is not considered human by law, why would I be charged with a double homicide if I kill a pregnant woman and the baby dies too? Obviously, it is legally a person. The Unborn Victims of Violence act recognizes an embryo or fetus as a legal victim.

Abortion should be a tough pill to swallow for anyone who claims to care about human life.

roe v wade is not overturned.
at least 50 % of the country does not agree that an embryo or an early fetus is a person.
this is not obvious to most people like plessy would be to enlightened people.
i do not consider a fetus at early stages to be a human being.
a pregnant mother decides on whether the fetus is a baby with rights or not up to certain stages as does the law.

some states have laws on fetal homicide...laws vary from state to state......the status change and is seperate from the issue of whether the fetus has any constitutional rights regarding the ultimate decision by the pregnant mother.
perhaps one day this decision will be overturned...perhaps not.....most of the united states believes it is not as obvious to them then to you, my friend.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2019 5:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/6/2019 5:03:00 PM (view original):
Once again, that's completely illogical. It is a separate person growing inside of a person.

Maybe this will help you understand. If they were the same person, abortion would be impossible. If they were the same person, you wouldn't be able to kill one without also killing the other. If they were the same person, they would have the exact same DNA. They are obviously two separate people.

If it can't be separated it can't be separate.

Full stop.

You would be unpopular at the Siamese Twins convention.

thepew research polling in 2018 found that 58% believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases....37% said no...5% did not know......thats basically 60 - 40.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2019 5:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/6/2019 5:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/6/2019 5:11:00 PM (view original):
And I don't understand how this is so hard for you to grasp. The ability to survive separately is pretty ******* crucial to the argument that someone is a separate person.

The fetus can be removed (and die). It cannot be separated and survive. It's not a separate person.

You never answered me. If it is week 28 and the fetus can survive then is abortion OK or not?

It's somewhat irrelevant. Less than 0.10% (not ten percent, one-tenth of a percent) of abortions are performed after 24 weeks and almost all of them were due to fetal anomalies.

No one is having voluntary late-term abortions.

You’re a joke. Your whole dogma is giving examples of rare cases and when you get one you ignore it. With all due respect, you’re an idiot and a hypocrite.

Posted by dino27 on 2/6/2019 8:18:00 PM (view original):
thepew research polling in 2018 found that 58% believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases....37% said no...5% did not know......thats basically 60 - 40.

The Pew. Wtf