Redshirting - Page 6 - Hoops Dynasty

Posts: 61 (0)

Hall of Famer

298 1 13

Prospect

I'm not sure why this concept is so hard to grasp.

If you find a loophole, report it. Stop doing it. Otherwise you're using it to gain an unfair competitive advantage. Obviously the loophole isn't going to be fixed over night, over a week or even a month. (Do you need to look any further than the engine rollout to understand that nothing happens fast here?)

Clearly some of the things that you're doing are NOT intended. (Juggling the RS on/off to exploit WE/practice plan gains)

12/30/2009 7:53 AM

emy1013

Posts: 2731 (0)

Hall of Famer

898

Prospect

I hear you Mlatsko, and on the one hand I agree whole-heartedly.

However, on the other, I'm still a little torn as to whether it's OUR responsibility to get these things fixed. This game is how many years old now? If it's still got all these little glitches, then it wasn't properly tested when it was rolled out, and I for one, am getting a little tired of playing beta tester with all these garbage roll-outs. These things need to be tested, tested, and tested some more to make SURE they work properly before they're actually put into the game. If they aren't tested well enough and a glitch is found, then whose fault is that? The coach who found it and used it, or WIS for not testing every aspect of their game.

There's no hurry to get these updates rolled out, but (this new engine release notwithstanding), WIS has always wanted to rush these things out, and they're obviously not testing them well enough. Just my two cents.......

12/30/2009 9:25 AM

newmex

Posts: 67 (0)

Hall of Famer

1 37 43 67 2 11

Prospect

I would equate this to a drug company trying to get a drug approved by the FDA. Drug companies spend millions before a new drug even gets to the clinical trial stage. When it finally gets approved by the FDA, supposedly every adverse reaction has been documented and put into the medication literature. So why do we see these lawyer advertisements everyday about if you've taken so and so and this happens, you may be entitled to damages. These are drugs that have been prescribed by doctors for years and now we're just finding out they cause serious problems? My point is, no matter how much you test, something is always going to come up that no one anticipated. All you can do is report it. If everyone decides to make use of the 'glitch' is it really a glitch anymore?

It's human nature to try to find and exploit loopholes. The performance-enhancing drug industry is proof of that.

12/30/2009 10:12 AM

mlatsko1

Posts: 61 (0)

Hall of Famer

298 1 13

Prospect

I'm not going to go to extremes, but this is the basic principle...

If you knowingly exploit (juggling the RS is a great example considering the effort required), then you're wrong. Period. That is a blatant attempt and as I've already stated, if I were running HD, he'd be perma-banned. (Which should have happened with his FreeHD crap.)

I don't free WIS from fault with their slow adjustments. But I fully blame a cheater for cheating. I have zero respect for anyone that would cheats, let alone would do it in a fantasy simulation game. Seriously? That speaks volumes about someone's character.

12/30/2009 10:27 AM

emy1013

Posts: 2731 (0)

Hall of Famer

898

Prospect

Quote: Originally Posted By mlatsko1 on 12/30/2009
I'm not going to go to extremes, but this is the basic principle...

If you knowingly exploit (juggling the RS is a great example considering the effort required), then you're wrong. Period. That is a blatant attempt and as I've already stated, if I were running HD, he'd be perma-banned. (Which should have happened with his FreeHD crap.)

I don't free WIS from fault with their slow adjustments. But I fully blame a cheater for cheating. I have zero respect for anyone that would cheats, let alone would do it in a fantasy simulation game. Seriously? That speaks volumes about someone's character.

Agreed, and that's why I made the comment about running into people like him every day at work. All those convicts tried to skirt the rules, bend the laws, or play the system and they all got caught. If he keeps up this mindset of his, I'll probably see him too eventually.

Also, I couldn't agree more that it is pretty pathetic that someone would go to those lengths to try to win at an online simulation game. It's not like the National Champion wins the Powerball jackpot or anything. I go back to my post earlier, what it shows me is that they aren't confident enough in their abilities as coaches to win on a level playing field. Period.

I have to laugh because there is one coach in particular who cries every time one of these "loopholes" is made public. Keep it in sitemails, he cries. Keep it off the main forums or they'll fix it, he whines. Now he is one who DEFINITELY can't win on a level playing field, which is why he wants to keep all this stuff top secret. It ain't Furry, but it's one of his buddies.........

12/30/2009 10:32 AM

emy1013

Posts: 2731 (0)

Hall of Famer

898

Prospect

Quote: Originally Posted By newmex on 12/30/2009
I would equate this to a drug company trying to get a drug approved by the FDA. Drug companies spend millions before a new drug even gets to the clinical trial stage. When it finally gets approved by the FDA, supposedly every adverse reaction has been documented and put into the medication literature. So why do we see these lawyer advertisements everyday about if you've taken so and so and this happens, you may be entitled to damages. These are drugs that have been prescribed by doctors for years and now we're just finding out they cause serious problems? My point is, no matter how much you test, something is always going to come up that no one anticipated. All you can do is report it. If everyone decides to make use of the 'glitch' is it really a glitch anymore?

It's human nature to try to find and exploit loopholes. The performance-enhancing drug industry is proof of that.

Good points. Well thought out and explained. I agree with you, except for one minor issue, which is the "loopholes" that are still being found are basic things that should have been cleared up years ago. Other than that, I would agree with your post 100%.

12/30/2009 10:44 AM

hitman1979

Posts: 449 (0)

Hall of Famer

1 166 148 31

Prospect

After all this time, furry is still cheating. Some things never change. Good to know that his success means absolutely nothing, since he hand to resort to underhanded tactics to achieve it. Carry on.

12/30/2009 10:48 AM

emy1013

Posts: 2731 (0)

Hall of Famer

898

Prospect

The more I think about it, the more I think Furry's argument doesn't hold water. He's saying that he reported it to CS and they basically told him that "they'll look into it". He's taking this as a green light to go ahead and use said loopholes until they're fixed because CS didn't stop the presses and fix them right then and there (which they should, in my opinion).

This would be akin to someone getting pulled over for speeding and not getting a ticket. It's against the rules, but since the law didn't write him a ticket and "correct" the problem, he takes this as a "green light" to speed all the time. Hey, if it's that bad I would have been written a citation, but since I wasn't, it must be okay to do this all the time. Probably a bad analogy, but the same mindset at work here............

12/30/2009 10:49 AM

emy1013

Posts: 2731 (0)

Hall of Famer

898

Prospect

Quote: Originally Posted By hitman1979 on 12/30/2009
After all this time, furry is still cheating. Some things never change. Good to know that his success means absolutely nothing, since he hand to resort to underhanded tactics to achieve it. Carry on.

12/30/2009 10:50 AM

emy1013

Posts: 2731 (0)

Hall of Famer

898

Prospect

By the way, Hitman, I don't have any open schollies to fill at UCLA next season, so I won't be trying to steal your recruits this time. Sorry I jumped on your guy late, but I thought recruiting started a day later than it did, and I was waaay behind the power curve. No hard feelings I hope..........

12/30/2009 10:53 AM

girt25

Posts: 2136 (0)

Hall of Famer

1 122 1 1

Rookie

Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 12/30/2009

The more I think about it, the more I think Furry's argument doesn't hold water. He's saying that he reported it to CS and they basically told him that "they'll look into it". He's taking this as a green light to go ahead and use said loopholes until they're fixed because CS didn't stop the presses and fix them right then and there (which they should, in my opinion).

This would be akin to someone getting pulled over for speeding and not getting a ticket. It's against the rules, but since the law didn't write him a ticket and "correct" the problem, he takes this as a "green light" to speed all the time. Hey, if it's that bad I would have been written a citation, but since I wasn't, it must be okay to do this all the time. Probably a bad analogy, but the same mindset at work here............

Yeah, I don't like the analogy. Everyone knows speeding is against the law. The RS thing, that may or may not be something WIS wants to (or even effectively can) eliminate. We don't know that. That RS thing occurred to me a long time ago, but I've never done it.

But other than that, I don't think any of the other stuff that's been mentioned are actually cheap loopholes, are they? Maybe I missed something.

So are we really vilifying the guy over the RS trick that he already reported to CS? Do I think it's the most upstanding thing to do? No. Do I think it justifies him being crucified in a public forum? No.

12/30/2009 11:02 AM

newmex

Posts: 67 (0)

Hall of Famer

1 37 43 67 2 11

Prospect

Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 12/30/2009

The more I think about it, the more I think Furry's argument doesn't hold water. He's saying that he reported it to CS and they basically told him that "they'll look into it". He's taking this as a green light to go ahead and use said loopholes until they're fixed because CS didn't stop the presses and fix them right then and there (which they should, in my opinion).

This would be akin to someone getting pulled over for speeding and not getting a ticket. It's against the rules, but since the law didn't write him a ticket and "correct" the problem, he takes this as a "green light" to speed all the time. Hey, if it's that bad I would have been written a citation, but since I wasn't, it must be okay to do this all the time. Probably a bad analogy, but the same mindset at work here............

I would agree if he had complained about getting caught or been penalized in some way. "I've been doing it all this time, why are you stopping me now?" That doesn't seem to be the case here. If he reported it and told other users about it, I don't see a problem.

Whether or not what he has been doing is defined as cheating is up to WIS, not someone's own personal sense of right and wrong. Character flaws are a completely different issue.

12/30/2009 11:02 AM

emy1013

Posts: 2731 (0)

Hall of Famer

898

Prospect

Yeah, I guess that was a pretty bad analogy. You'll have to excuse me if I'm not making sense, I'm under the influence of some pretty good medication for a leg problem right now.

Anyhow, a discussion question for the masses. I've spoken to a number of top coaches, who have played for a long time, and the consensus opinion seems to be that the effectiveness of the press has been dialed up too much. With the total number of teams that run the press, this would seem to be the defense of choice at the current time (wonder why?). Hell, just about every top team in Tark D1 runs it (I'm holding out. I still run M2M at UCLA. And badly, I might add).

My question to the general forum is, if the press is too effective and is not working as intended (and I'm not saying it is or isn't), is it "cheating" to change your defense to run the FCP and exploit a "glitch" in the system?

Just a thought to try to get some positive, constructive debates going instead of all the fighting we've been seeing lately (because that crap is getting REALLLLLLLY old)........

12/30/2009 11:13 AM

seble

Posts: 880 (0)

Hall of Famer

24 44 35 306 121 185

Prospect

FYI, we've released some changes relevant to this thread:

http://www.whatifsports.com/locker/site_updates.asp?sport=HD

12/30/2009 11:26 AM

dalter

Posts: 71 (0)

All Star

25

Prospect

Well, first off, that's a pretty straightforward answer. I guess it took getting this bit of dirty laundry aired (and I'm guessing tickets from a couple angry people, though I don't know) to have them prioritize the fix.

And emy, pain meds and all, you make a good point re: the press. I would agree that it's too strong in the current engine. Same thing with the -5, which for years many coaches have felt was glitchy (and many simply won't use because of that).

mlat, I respect your opinion, I just think it's a much finer line than your approach indicated. There are a lot of shades of gray in HD.

12/30/2009 11:39 AM

Forums

Redshirting Topic

Search Criteria