Pointless tangent. I apologize for having contributed to it.

The bottom line here is that a pitcher's DUR rating is not, nor has it ever been, the same as a position player's DUR rating.

In HBD, you cannot use position players to pitch or use pitchers to play the field and hit, without risking huge fatigue as a consequence.

Quote: Originally posted by soxfan121 on 3/11/2010Pointless tangent. I apologize for having contributed to it.

The bottom line here is that a pitcher's DUR rating is not, nor has it ever been, the same as a position player's DUR rating.

In HBD, you cannot use position players to pitch or use pitchers to play the field and hit, without risking huge fatigue as a consequence.

Most of us understand that but WIS contends (the way I read it) that the system is setup to punish people for playing players out of position and not because the system is flawed. Hence when they say its working as intended. I have played WIS games a long time and in my opinion they will find a excuse to justify a flaw in their game rather than admit and correct the problem. How many times have you seen them say its working as intended then a year later the problem is fixed?

So you were there when they started discussing the use of the DH?

Not disagreeing but fear of injury is there now. AL pitchers don't hit. AL teams don't want their pitchers hitting because they don't know how. And when you're doing something that you suck at, you're more likely to be injured.

Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 3/11/2010So you were there when they started discussing the use of the DH?Not disagreeing but fear of injury is there now.  AL pitchers don't hit.  AL teams don't want their pitchers hitting because they don't know how.  And when you're doing something that you suck at, you're more likely to be injured.

I was a baseball fan in the mid 70's and I read magazines and the sports page. Plus its common knowledge of the reasons why they switched to the DH. It was a talked about for years as a way to increase offense in a game that had become too low scoring.

Most pitchers in the N.L. suck at the plate and they don't get hurt when batting. Its obvious you are more likely to get hurt batting than sitting in the dugout, but same goes for a position player.

Pitchers bat 9th in the N.L. because they suck at batting. American league teams take advantage of the DH because position players hit better than pitchers. Is it a advantage that pitchers are less likely to get hurt not batting, yes, but it's not the reason why A.L. teams use hitters at DH instead of pitchers.

You're ignoring my point. Pitchers don't work on hitting any longer in the AL. NL pitchers do very little of it just like minor leaguers. They work on pitching. And, because of that, they can't hit and, as I said, when you're doing something you're not capable of doing, the risk of injury increases.

Pitchers hit in the N.L. all the time without getting injured. Just playing the game of baseball is a injury risk. Obviously sitting on the bench compared to batting decreases your odds of getting injured.

Pitchers on average never hit well. That goes back 100 plus years when Connie Mack pushed for a DH rule to get his weak hitting pitchers out of the lineup.


Hitters hit better than pitchers. If a pitcher can hit better than any hitters he would bat. Teams use whatever strategy they can within the rules given them to win. Obviously there is a risk vs reward scenario. However to say injury is the reason teams use hitters to play DH instead of pitchers is false and not even believable. If you try and say that its a advantage that they do not get hurt I can understand that, but its not the reason why hitters bat instead of pitchers.


"The average fan comes to the park to see action, home runs. He doesn't come to see a one-, two-, three- or four-hit game. I can't think of anything more boring than to see a pitcher come up, when the average pitcher can't hit my grandmother. Let's have a permanent pinch-hitter for the pitcher." - A's Owner Charlie O. Finley

Remember Babe Ruth? Pitcher. Guys who can rake hit. Pitchers can't rake.

If a guy can hit they will find a place for them to hit. Babe Ruth was a Cy Young quality pitcher, but he was also a MVP quality hitter. We all know what he did for a living in his career. If a team thinks they have a better shot of winning with a pitcher batting instead of a hitter then the pitcher will bat.

http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/what_is_a_designated_hitter

Here is a article on the DH. Talks about history and the arguments of benefits and criticisms of the DH. Not one mention of the benefits of injuries. You would think a article about the DH would discuss the main reason why a position player bats instead of a pitcher.

What is a Designated Hitter?
The American League’s Permanent Pinch Hitter Was Introduced in 1973

Apr 3, 2007 James Lincoln Ray
As the designated hitter enters its 35th season, baseball fans continue to debate its overall value to the game of baseball.

Many National League baseball fans may ask, what is a Designated Hitter? The Designated Hitter is an official baseball position that was put into place by the American League in 1973. The official Designated Hitter rule allows a team to designate a player to bat in the place of or pinch hit for the pitcher. The AL enacted the rule to boost scoring and offensive excitement, both of which had fallen dramatically during the 1960’s. The Designated Hitter spot is technically an option, but every American League team uses one. Anyone who has ever seen Andy Pettitte try to hit is quite thankful for that.
The First Designated Hitter

The Designated Hitter was the brainchild of former Oakland A's owner Charlie Finley. Finley first experimented with the DH in spring training games as early as 1969. He led the movement to make the DH a full-time position after the 1972 season, and the measure was adopted by American League owners shortly before the 1973 season.

Ron Blomberg of the New York Yankees became the first Designated Hitter in Major League Baseball history when he faced Luis Tiant of the Boston Red Sox in his first plate appearance on Opening Day in 1973. Blomberg walked on four pitches.
The Designated Hitter Provides Greater Offense

During the first season of the Designated Hitter, the American League posted a higher league batting average and scored more runs than the National League, something that has remained consistent to this day. Strategically, the Designated Hitter offers American League managers two very attractive options that are not available to their National League brethren: they can either rotate the role among players, using -handed hitting DHs against right-handed pitchers and vice-versa, or they can employ a full-time Designated Hitter.
The Designated Hitter, the World Series and Interleague Play

From 1973 through 1975, the Designated Hitter was not permitted in the World Series. This changed in 1976, when the Commissioner and the owners voted to allow the Designated Hitter for both teams in all World Series that were played in even-numbered years. That practice was changed in 1986 to allow the DH in all games played in the American League team's stadium. Likewise, in the All-Star Game, the rule is applied only to games played in American League stadiums (which happens every other year). The same system is applied to regular season interleague games.
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Benefits and Criticisms of the Designated Hitter

The Designated Hitter rule is a matter of great debate among baseball fans. Baseball purists argue that it destroys the symmetry of the game. When the pitcher bats, all nine players take their turns at the plate and in the field. Nice and even. Balanced. Symmetrical. With the advent of the DH, however, there are now three classes of players: those who pitch, those who hit, and those who do both.

The Designated Hitter can also affect strategy in the late innings. Without the DH, a manager must often decide whether to let a pitcher hit or remove him from the game altogether. He also must decide who to pinch hit, and where or if that pinch hitter will take the field at the top of the next inning. These are often very tough choices that a many baseball fans feel lie at the very heart of the game.

Those in favor of the Designated Hitter point to the increased offense, and also emphasize that it has extended the careers of many great players such as Reggie Jackson, Carl Yastrzemski, Edgar Martinez and Paul Molitor. The rule also allows pitchers to play deeper into games than they otherwise might by removing the manager's incentive to lift the pitcher to attain a short-term offensive advantage.

There is considerable debate over whether the Designated Hitter rule should continue. While many National League fans seem almost religiously opposed to the DH, others would not mind the offensive injection that the DH brings to the game. Still others enjoy the fact that the different leagues have different rules.

One thing seems for sure: almost 35 years into the ‘experiment’ of the Designated Hitter, the American League seems permanently attached to the rule. Two generations of AL fans have grown up with the DH and consider it a vital part of the American League game. And, at this point, it really is.

Read more at Suite101: What is a Designated Hitter?: The American League’s Permanent Pinch Hitter Was Introduced in 1973 http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/what_is_a_designated_hitter#ixzz0hvOtVbQO

I've actually changed pitchers into position guys and vice-versa when I need a body. It seems to work ok for me.