OT: NCAA seeding/1st round matchups Topic

zhawks
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3/15/2010 4:14 PM
Rails
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over whom? What was their record 1-50? Please be less specific.
3/15/2010 4:16 PM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 3/15/2010
Hmmm. Really? So in saying that, you're willing to throw out the fact that every ranking system has Wisconsin over MSU? And I meant that literally; Massey has a comparison of 25 different ranking systems, and the Badgers were ahead in all 25.

But of course you're the basketball ratings guy, so you must've known that, right?

And then should we also throw out the fact that they beat Wisconsin in Madison, one of the toughest places to play in the country?

Still think the Wisconsin win wasn't as big?

The Wisconsin and whoever else Illinois beat wins weren't as big as the MSU and Purdue wins combined...that was the point I was making. I have Minnesota ahead of Illinois and that's taking into account all games played.
3/15/2010 4:27 PM
jslotman
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I bet St. John's has as many top 50 wins as does Illinois. Speaking off the cuff, but just saying, Illinois is junk and deserved to not be in the tournament. You can't win that many games against the top 50 and still have an RPI as awful as 75.

ETA - that should tell you something about the Big 10 this year - Illinois only played eight games against teams in the top 100 of the RPI. Meanwhile, take a similarly awful Big East team in ST. John's, and they played 13 games against top 10 RPI squads. Anyway, if you don't play anybody good, you can't beat anybody good, and Illinois stinks. End conclusion.
3/15/2010 4:28 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By jslotman on 3/15/2010
I bet St. John's has as many top 50 wins as does Illinois. Speaking off the cuff, but just saying, Illinois is junk and deserved to not be in the tournament. You can't win that many games against the top 50 and still have an RPI as awful as 75.

ETA - that should tell you something about the Big 10 this year - Illinois only played eight games against teams in the top 100 of the RPI. Meanwhile, take a similarly awful Big East team in ST. John's, and they played 13 games against top 10 RPI squads. Anyway, if you don't play anybody good, you can't beat anybody good, and Illinois stinks. End conclusion.



Rpi alone is a horrible way to judge a team. wow if that is your argument.

Also Illinois had 5 wins over the top 25 in the rpi, which is near the top of the NCAA.

Illinois was very inconsistant, to call them junk is missing the boat entirely.
3/15/2010 4:57 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By Rails on 3/15/2010over whom? What was their record 1-50? Please be less specific
Vandy, @ Clemson, @ Wisky, Wisky-n, MSU
3/15/2010 4:58 PM
zhawks
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And again, i completely understand why IL didn't get in and that is fine , they didn't win enough games, fine there was doubt , obviously or we wouldn't be having this discussion, but they made a better case then FL and finished ahead of MN in the Big Ten.
3/15/2010 5:01 PM
creilmann
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Kornheiser and Wilbon just lifted my "group of death" analogy. Bastards.
3/15/2010 5:36 PM
Rails
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MN was 5-7 versus RPI 1-50. Illinois was 5-9 versus 1-50. MN also beat ILL at ILL. Hard to argue with a head to head and a better 1-50 record. What it might also show is that outcomes against mediocre teams (150+) doesn't matter as much as W/L versus 1-50.

FWIW, ILL finished 10-8 and 1-1 in the CT for a total conf record of 11-9. MN finished 9-9 and 3-1 for a total conf. record of 12-10. MN beat ILL head to head. There is no question MN earned its way in during the CT.

3/15/2010 7:27 PM
atrain9954
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Quote: Originally Posted By Rails on 3/15/2010
MN was 5-7 versus RPI 1-50. Illinois was 5-9 versus 1-50. MN also beat ILL at ILL. Hard to argue with a head to head and a better 1-50 record. What it might also show is that outcomes against mediocre teams (150+) doesn't matter as much as W/L versus 1-50.

FWIW, ILL finished 10-8 and 1-1 in the CT for a total conf record of 11-9. MN finished 9-9 and 3-1 for a total conf. record of 12-10. MN beat ILL head to head. There is no question MN earned its way in during the CT.



Yeah, I agree with Rails here. Minnesota showed they are willing and able to play hard against good teams. And say what you want, but a Hummel-less Purdue team is still a very capable team. And Minnesota destroyed them.
3/15/2010 8:55 PM
kelby_03
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I'm a big Illini fan and I'm disappointed they didn't make the tournament. I thought they had a resume better than Florida and Utah St so that sucked seeing those teams get in. Plus UTEP and Minnesota were very comparable.

They had their chances to secure a bid though and blew it. So many games that they let slip away that would of been the difference. I can't complain that a 14 loss team didn't get in. Nobody to blame but themselves.

One point comparing Minnesota is that most "experts" had Illinois above Minny going into the CT. I would of much rather played a shorthanded Mich St and Purdue than Wisconsin and Ohio St. Illinois should of just won their home game against Minny or put Ohio St away when they had the chance and they wouldn't be traveling to Stony Brook...
3/15/2010 9:11 PM
coach_billyg
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i thought there were 2 big problems
1) seeding of the pac 10 teams
2) duke. a 1 seed? i would have taken 2 big east teams, the ACC was bad and there is no way duke is top 5 in terms of chances of winning the tourney. then they get a road #1 overall seeds dream of. come on. duke is so consistently favored in the selection process its criminal. at least, they will most likely fall in round 2 to louisville, if they can manage to keep it together for overseeded cal.
3/15/2010 9:52 PM
atrain9954
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Quote: Originally Posted By coach_billyg on 3/15/2010i thought there were 2 big problems
1) seeding of the pac 10 teams
2) duke. a 1 seed? i would have taken 2 big east teams, the ACC was bad and there is no way duke is top 5 in terms of chances of winning the tourney. then they get a road #1 overall seeds dream of. come on. duke is so consistently favored in the selection process its criminal. at least, they will most likely fall in round 2 to louisville, if they can manage to keep it together for overseeded cal
Preaching to the choir! Duke is constantly overrated and overseeded.
3/15/2010 10:58 PM
tmacfan12
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I can't wait to laugh at all these Duke comments in a few weeks.
3/15/2010 11:08 PM
hitman1979
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3/16/2010 12:05 AM
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