Glitch that needs to be fixed (long) Topic

girt25
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^^^ What he said. ^^^

4/20/2010 4:43 PM
thewizard2
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I've been using this strategy for a very long time with upping the distro between the 2 guards. You can ask alblack.
4/20/2010 6:41 PM
summerteeth
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This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
4/20/2010 7:19 PM
oldave
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i think this example suggests that the cole/tinsley team might be better off playing a conventional offense (or at least slightly more conventional offense than what they are currently playing)

or at least thats the way i look at it... maybe im missing somehting?
4/21/2010 12:22 AM
oldave
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Quote: Originally Posted By survivor45 on 4/20/2010

HD right now has a bad bell curve. ...., HD's recipe for success is to play at either end of two extremes: either play a hyper-balanced distro where scoring champs have difficulty cracking 12ppg. or give ALL your distro to your shooters.

Like chewchad said, HD right now doesn't have many guys averaging over 20ppg. And HDs solution to bingball is to make star players LESS effective? I don't like it at all.



true stuff... very true. never thought much about this issue in relation to the opposite problem,,, but its real true... most (heck , damn near ALL i would say) elite HD teams rely on very balanced scoring and you almost never see a kid scoring 18ppg on one of. these top teams.

I have had some absolute BEASTS in terms of ratings and what you would expect, but i am pretty sure ive never had a D1 player average more than 15ppg... and that is in a FB/press scheme.

maybe we are fixing the wrong thing?
4/21/2010 12:24 AM
kmasonbx1
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Quote: Originally Posted By survivor45 on 4/20/2010kmasonbx - Okay, maybe not 50% of a teams' shots, but there are many college programs that rely heavily on a shooting guard. That has a lot to do with the smaller 3-point arc in college as opposed to the pros.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=273392429

HD right now has a bad bell curve. Whereas many college teams have a recipe of success by using a Jimmy Chitwood-type at shooting guard to play equalizer against a talented foes, HD's recipe for success is to play at either end of two extremes: either play a hyper-balanced distro where scoring champs have difficulty cracking 12ppg. or give ALL your distro to your shooters.

Like chewchad said, HD right now doesn't have many guys averaging over 20ppg. And HDs solution to bingball is to make star players LESS effective? I don't like it at all.

It's like, "Hey! I'm David going up against a Goliath of an opponent. What should a good coach do? Should I try to beat him on the outside and live/die by the three? Should I give the ball to my best player and set all kinds of screens, challenge them, and hope my player has a career game?" HD: "Nah, we put a stop to such possibilities. Just play at a low tempo and hope for a flaky result. Enjoy coaching your hoops dynasty team!"

Nonsense. And I'm not a fan of the triple-team option at all , either. It's like Spinal Tap where they get amps that go up to '11'. Why not make '10' louder? But these go up to 11!

Why not make the double-team more effective?
I think there are other ways to make star players more affective other then let them take 90% of the shots when they are on the floor and be efficient. The 2 biggest ways to do it is something that is supposedly in the works by making players overall worse, which will allow some players to be truely elite. So instead of having every team in a BCS conference having at least 2 guards with 99+sp you could have 90sp be the norm and 99/100 sp being the star players, and on top of that not having so many guys reach 90+ defense. The other is to have guys play closer to 100% effective even when they are getting tired so that you can be happy playing guys 27+ minutes without worrying about their production falling way off.
4/21/2010 12:34 AM
nbstowman
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I think that's what they are trying to do with the new engine.
4/21/2010 12:35 AM
chewchad
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please, pretty please WIS, do not make this change. please think about it a little more. IF you do make the adjustment, start higher at 70% and work your way from there instead of a KNEEJERK reaction

we need to be able to have a 20 point scorer if we want...this will all but eliminate the possiblity of us having an team built around Iverson, Curry, Szerbiak, Bird, etc. There were many college teams that had 1 true stud that took most of the shots.

make a change to the defense before this. A majority of people like high scoring games, players, teams, etc.
4/21/2010 12:41 AM
kmasonbx
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None of the guys you talk about took 90% of their team's shots while they were on the floor. You can have 20 point scorers by doing the changes I spoke of above not just by letting a guy take 25 of his team's 30 shots when he's on the court.
4/21/2010 1:02 AM
survivor45
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Quote: Originally posted by kmasonbx on 4/21/2010None of the guys you talk about took 90% of their team's shots while they were on the floor. You can have 20 point scorers by doing the changes I spoke of above not just by letting a guy take 25 of his team's 30 shots when he's on the court.

kmasonbx -

In one of your games tonight, give one of your players 90% of your team's shots. Then post the box score here.
4/21/2010 9:32 AM
a_in_the_b
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Knight - Leading scorer at DI averages 20.8 points. Going by even a conservative estimate, he wouldn't shoot more than thirty-five percent of his team's shots.

YOu can score over twenty without taking fifty plus percent of your team's shots.

Wooden - Leading scorer at dI 22.3 PPG - at a rough estimate, perhaps 38% of the team's shots - after adjusting for minutes on the floor for both.

4/21/2010 9:40 AM
summerteeth
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Quote: Originally posted by oldave on 4/21/2010i think this example suggests that the cole/tinsley  team might be better off playing a conventional offense (or at least slightly more conventional offense than what they are currently playing)or at least thats the way i look at it... maybe im missing somehting?

that's how i see it as well. i'm wondering if this would prove true in some of the other examples. time permitting, i may delve in to it later today.
4/21/2010 10:48 AM
kmasonbx
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Quote: Originally Posted By a_in_the_b on 4/21/2010Knight - Leading scorer at DI averages 20.8 points. Going by even a conservative estimate, he wouldn't shoot more than thirty-five percent of his team's shots.

YOu can score over twenty without taking fifty plus percent of your team's shots.

Wooden - Leading scorer at dI 22.3 PPG - at a rough estimate, perhaps 38% of the team's shots - after adjusting for minutes on the floor for both.

I just had a guy average 22.3 in Tark D1 which was 3rd in D1 and he probably took 15 shots a game.

Survivor, I only have 1 game today, all the rest of my teams are in between seasons. That 1 game is the conference tourney, so I won't be experimenting with distro in that game, lol. I mean I've done this before but only against really bad teams just to see how many points my star player could score. The guy I spoke about who was 3rd in Tark D1 scoring there were several games against really bad teams I let him shoot a bunch and he would shoot well but I've never tried this against teams that had a good chance to beat me.
4/21/2010 12:32 PM
schroedess26
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I just don't understand why were not focusing on the defense instead of on forcing players to just shoot worse because they take shots.

Instead of rebounding lets go with football. Two players go and can run up and down the field on the other defense because they are just great players and the defense is not that good. Look at the Dolphins with the Wild Cat, when it was working teams could not stop them. But they GAMEPLANNED and SET THEIR DEFENSE.

Instead of making sure the defense is fully utilized and if they are not good enough your SOL you want to make it so the player becomes automatically worse just because he is taking "too many" hand offs. Nothing to do with fatigue, the defense, or game planning in the game.
4/21/2010 12:43 PM
schroedess26
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"I mean I've done this before but only against really bad teams"

So how do you truly know if it can get shut down? Of course bad teams can't shut down your star player, more than likely your star player is quite a bit better than theirs.

Also, if you run this a whole season you will quickly realize that against teams up to your level or better they can shut down your guy pretty quickly. Its when you have the advantage that its deadly, which it should be after all your better.

Oh and the people that say there is better ways to utilize a star player may be right, but why are you forcing people to use that method. If your star player is better than the who rest of your team and other team why shouldn't he be dominate?
4/21/2010 12:47 PM
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Glitch that needs to be fixed (long) Topic
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