Quote: Originally Posted By Rails on 5/21/2010
Seble, can you check something when you get a chance? It's regarding the 1/2 court press/(man/zone).

We've had dialog on how we envision it working in real life (front court). In HD it's clear that the press is in the backcourt with the base defense then dropping into either man or zone in the frontcourt. I think that was a new learning for you based on your comments at the time.

The PBP terminology that says "open shot or shoots over a trap or DT" was specifically reserved for the FCP (which traps the entire court) and when players were doubled out of the man or zone halfcourt sets.

However, I'm seeing open shots in the PBP when teams are in the 1/2 court press/(man or zone). I know that when a kid goes in for an uncontested layup the verbage is similar but this is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about real halfcourt offense.

I sent a ticket and the reply was that uncontested shots can occur in those half court sets as well. I purposefully off the fact that it was a 1/2 court trap/zone as to not influence the CS reply.

My gut tells me that those open shots are because it's a halfcourt press (even though in HD the 1/2 court press is in the backcourt), and not the answer that CS replied with.

I have never seen open/unguarded shots in a straight zone or man without a dt--only when there is a 1/2 court press.

If this is the case it'd be nice to really know how the engine is handling the FCP and 1/2 court press. Worse case scenario would be that because the 1/2 court press doesn't have fatigue as much as FCP it's providing the same benefits as FCP.

Thanks.

Quote: Originally Posted By arssanguinus on 5/20/2010If we beta tested for five years before release there would still be an error on release and someone would STILL say "Why didn't you just wait MORE?'

How many computer games are released without major patches?

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 5/21/2010
dcy, that's basically what I told seble during the latter stages of beta ... take your time, it's taken this long, let's make sure it's held back long enough to get it right, or people are going to get angry. This non-release, stop-and-start will **** a lot more people off then if it hadn't been released yet at all.

That said, right now all we can do is focus on trying to address any issues that exist when the new engine gets rolling. Everyone should be proactive about sending tickets if they notice things that seem out-of-whack, as that's how they'll be caught early. How exactly can you be proactive when all you can actually do is sit, wait, and hope? Your only solution is to be positive, and that isn't being proactive at all, that's being hopefully optimistic.

Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 5/21/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 5/21/2010

dcy, that's basically what I told seble during the latter stages of beta ... take your time, it's taken this long, let's make sure it's held back long enough to get it right, or people are going to get angry. This non-release, stop-and-start will **** a lot more people off then if it hadn't been released yet at all.

That said, right now all we can do is focus on trying to address any issues that exist when the new engine gets rolling. Everyone should be proactive about sending tickets if they notice things that seem out-of-whack, as that's how they'll be caught early. How exactly can you be proactive when all you can actually do is sit, wait, and hope? Your only solution is to be positive, and that isn't being proactive at all, that's being hopefully optimistic.

I think he means being pro-active in sending in tickets to report the problems/glitches/whackiness that is going on. And not just let those problems slip by and go un-noticed hoping the next guy will encounter the same problems and send in a ticket.

Alot of the vets on here are proactive and they dont just sit, wait, and hope. They actually help with finding the problems, and help with trying to get things sorted out.

And being positive is not the only solution, because Dalter said to be proactive about sending in tickets. And by sitting on a forum and berating the compounding issues and the developer/manager is not the greatest thing to do.

Yea we all know their are problems, can they be fixed probably yes, should they have done more testing I believe they should have.

So if anyone sees anything out of whack send in a ticket, or send Seble a message and point it out. Don't come on the forum and jump all over the game and the problems with it, as well as the developer/manager, because that just creates negative attitudes, and feelings towards a good game that people enjoy.

Do you think newbs on here that are looking for some fun, enjoy coming to the forums and seeing thread after thread, or post after post, about how bad WIS is, or the problems with WIS etc. I don't think they do, and that only pushes the new comers away.

Quote: Originally Posted By scottyj74 on 5/21/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By mizzou77 on 5/21/2010
say what you want about the PBP, being window dressing etc.... I count 24 times in my last exibition game in which my opponent takes uncontested or wide-open shots, a game in which we are at least 10pts/man more athletic and 20pts/man faster. Most of the shots are in the lane or close range. The new engine apears to simply not guard anyone if you press after you cross mid-court. Not once is the infamous "double-team" or "trap" mentioned. Nor does it appear to exist. Tweeking the press is one thing... makeing the players go set on the bench while the other horrible team takes 15 seconds to score is a joke

I had the same thing in both of my exhibition games as well. Not once in the PbP did I see "shoots over the doubleteam" or "splits the trap" or "fires up a 3 against 2 defenders". Instead, its "hits the open jumper" or "makes the wide open 3" or "banks in the uncontested layup". Heck, even their misses were "wide open" or "uncontested".... There is no doubt that there will be open shots against a press but not every single shot.

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 5/21/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By Rails on 5/21/2010

Seble, can you check something when you get a chance? It's regarding the 1/2 court press/(man/zone).

We've had dialog on how we envision it working in real life (front court). In HD it's clear that the press is in the backcourt with the base defense then dropping into either man or zone in the frontcourt. I think that was a new learning for you based on your comments at the time.

The PBP terminology that says "open shot or shoots over a trap or DT" was specifically reserved for the FCP (which traps the entire court) and when players were doubled out of the man or zone halfcourt sets.

However, I'm seeing open shots in the PBP when teams are in the 1/2 court press/(man or zone). I know that when a kid goes in for an uncontested layup the verbage is similar but this is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about real halfcourt offense.

I sent a ticket and the reply was that uncontested shots can occur in those half court sets as well. I purposefully off the fact that it was a 1/2 court trap/zone as to not influence the CS reply.

My gut tells me that those open shots are because it's a halfcourt press (even though in HD the 1/2 court press is in the backcourt), and not the answer that CS replied with.

I have never seen open/unguarded shots in a straight zone or man without a dt--only when there is a 1/2 court press.

If this is the case it'd be nice to really know how the engine is handling the FCP and 1/2 court press. Worse case scenario would be that because the 1/2 court press doesn't have fatigue as much as FCP it's providing the same benefits as FCP.

Thanks.

My gut agrees with your gut.

This is definitely something that needs to be thoroughly checked out.

Quote: Originally Posted By cheeznsweet on 5/21/2010

Colonels, you are, without question, the worst forum poster ever. You just argue for arguement's sake. Honestly, you make diablo look like ... i dunno ... dalter (no offense, dalter). So I'm the worst forum poster ever because we disagree? Fantastic. If you don't understand how/why people could/should be legitimately ****** off about this happening, then you have no clue how life operates. You guys want to give a free pass to every last "mistake" that happens here...I don't play that way...wrong is wrong.

I am amazed by your total lack of self-awareness on a pretty much continual basis. The first 2 responses to my initial questioning post were POSITIVE...thus it seems to me that others read what I posted, wanted to be offended, then raged against me because I wasn't happy that they pushed the release back...how bout that for an experiment. I err to the negative, get used to it, its what I do, its who I am, if you don't like it, don't read me, that simple. Again, if you have problems calling a spade a spade, then maybe you just shouldn't respond to me anymore. I'm almost to the point where I believe that you're a psychology professor that's doing research for a paper called something like: "A study in how on-line communities react to people that are overly confrontational". There's really almost no other explanation for you. I've accepted who I am along with my perception so I'm cool over here. You guys want to get worked up every time I post something remotely "controversial"...fine...I'll just sit back and laugh as usual. I'm as bad as you want me to be.

Edit*** Deleted prior posts to save space ***

Furry, it's actually amazing how similar our attitudes are at this point. Back when I first started, I would wait up EVERY night for the 2 a.m. games. I mean, literally, every night. When it came to recruiting, I would try my best to hit every cycle if I could. By the third day of recruiting, I would be walking around like a zombie due to lack of sleep. I enjoyed the game that much.

Now there are times when I don't even look at my teams for two or three days because the game just doesn't interest me like it used to. Like Furry, I still enjoy the game enough to keep playing, but my patience is being to run a little thin.

As I said earlier, I'm really getting kind of tired having to pay MY money to end up basically being a beta tester when this thing is rolled out for real. I realize that there are going to be a few bugs that were missed and need to be fixed, I'm not naive enough to expect it to be perfect. But from what I've seen in the last couple of days, it seems pretty obvious that this thing wasn't even close to being ready. I don't know if Seble was being told from higher up to have it out by a certain date, but if he was he really should have grabbed his nuts and told said higher ups that the engine wasn't ready to be rolled out and that he wouldn't put out an incomplete/insufficient product.

I'm currently running teams in every world under three ID's (and yes, I really how nerdy that must look). I'm doing this because I still haven't achieved my dream school, or two of my other destination schools, and I figure the more worlds I'm in the better chance I have to get those schools. So there it is, that's why, and to quote Billy Madison, "SO BACK OFF"! :^) But I can also say with 100% complete confidence that if this new engine isn't fixed and rolled out correctly, more than half of my teams will not be retained. I'm not going to waste my money on a faulty product (although, in all honesty, I usually do well enough in the tourneys to accumulate enough points/money from those to pay for my seasons. I still have to shell out a few dollars here and there, but not much).

I really think that you should do that poll you were talking about, Furry. My gut feeling is that it would be a rude awakening for WIS. Just talking to a few of the coaches that I know well, I can tell you that the majority opinion is that when their seasons run out, they're done with HD. Frustration seems to be the key point, and by frustration I mean waiting for this new "highly improved" engine that has already turned out to be a bust. Nearly everyone of them also hate the new play-by-play. Our opinions were that the old one was fine and that this new one, well, basically sucks. My answer to your poll question would be that I'm more than likely going to drop about half of my teams regardless and with the rest I'm definitely leaning towards leaving when my seasons run out. It's a shame because I really used to love this game, but in my opinion some of the new additions have just ruined it. To me, it's not nearly as fun as it was when I started 4?, maybe 5? years ago. You can use this ID for a vote in your poll and add my emy and angmar ID's also. I guess my final answer would be that I'll probably hang it up when my seasons run out, which is a shame because the game I used to love has been ruined. It'll be tough to let some of my teams go, especially Northeastern State in Tark where I was the first coach ever to hit 1000 wins in one world (and yes, that was a pat on the back, bragging session about myself, ha ha :^) Anyway, once again, enough babbling for now.

My only request is Seble, please, Please, PLEASE take the engine back, let the worlds that haven't used it stay as is, and get this thing fixed, whether it takes 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, or 1 whole year. We can wait, trust me on this, we've waited this long, and I think it's safe to say that the majority of coaches would be more than willing to wait to have this thing running as smooth as possible as opposed to something that was rushed out and wasn't nearly complete. That's my only request (besides going back to the old play-by-play because this new version SUCKS). If you can get the new engine running like it's supposed to and doing the things that it has been advertised to do and doing them CORRECTLY, then you'll keep me as customer for sure, and I'll probably end up grabbing some more teams. If it's rolled out incorrectly again, then you'll have one long time customer riding off into the sunset, and I'm sure I won't be the only one. So again, PLEASE, so I don't have to find another way to occupy my time, please take the time to have this thing working correctly. I'll wait, I promise, and I don't even care how long it takes. Take as much time as you need to get it done right.

Thank you and again, sorry for the rambling! :^)

Quote: Originally Posted By colonels19 on 5/21/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By cheeznsweet on 5/21/2010

Colonels, you are, without question, the worst forum poster ever. You just argue for arguement's sake. Honestly, you make diablo look like ... i dunno ... dalter (no offense, dalter). So I'm the worst forum poster ever because we disagree? Fantastic. If you don't understand how/why people could/should be legitimately ****** off about this happening, then you have no clue how life operates. You guys want to give a free pass to every last "mistake" that happens here...I don't play that way...wrong is wrong.

I am amazed by your total lack of self-awareness on a pretty much continual basis. The first 2 responses to my initial questioning post were POSITIVE...thus it seems to me that others read what I posted, wanted to be offended, then raged against me because I wasn't happy that they pushed the release back...how bout that for an experiment. I err to the negative, get used to it, its what I do, its who I am, if you don't like it, don't read me, that simple. Again, if you have problems calling a spade a spade, then maybe you just shouldn't respond to me anymore. I'm almost to the point where I believe that you're a psychology professor that's doing research for a paper called something like: "A study in how on-line communities react to people that are overly confrontational". There's really almost no other explanation for you. I've accepted who I am along with my perception so I'm cool over here. You guys want to get worked up every time I post something remotely "controversial"...fine...I'll just sit back and laugh as usual. I'm as bad as you want me to be.