DECREASE in recruit diversity :-( Topic

isack24
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Posted by grantduck on 6/23/2010 6:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 6/23/2010 6:06:00 PM (view original):
Posted by grantduck on 6/23/2010 5:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 6/23/2010 4:31:00 PM (view original):
I disgaree completely that there are plenty of guards outrebounding bigs in college.  There are guards who track down rebounds, guards who come off the weak side rebounds, etc.  But there aren't a lot of guards who could match up in the post, turn, and get a rebound over a 6'7" PF.
Yes there are, ESPECIALLY in college.  Apparently you didn't watch the NCAA tournament this year, you could have watched either of these teams have guards go straight up against bigs and get rebounds over them.   Durrell Summer, 6ft 4 in guard, with 10 rebounds, Veasley and Nored, smaller guards, combine for 11 rebounds.   Need more examples?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/gameflash/2010/04/03/63133_boxscore.html


It's totally reasonable to expect that there should be a decent # of guards with say 40-65 ath and 30-45 RBD.   
I wached plenty.  Nored was never matched up on bigs.  He would sneak in and grab boards in a crowd, I'll give you that, but he wasn't boxing out bigger players.

Summers was a top-twenty player in his class.  That's fine if you want to argue there should be a few guys with high ath/30+ reb, but he doesn't fit with your "decent # of guards" theory, he was an elite player.

For what it's worth, there are 24 D1 PG/SG newly-created in Wooden that have 60 ath/30 reb.     
What about D-II players and D-III players? 

There are still the high number of good rebounders/ath among bigs, but not at all among guards.

One of the major problems in this thread in replies seems to be all the answers seem to pertain to D-I.


And I can give you a number of other guys that were not highly rated and were outstanding rebounding guards.  Vasquez from Maryland averaged 5 boards a game at the PG spot,  Aubrey Coleman  from Houston average 7.4 rebounds per game at the SG spot, etc.  I could go on.  I'm not saying it's a HUGE problem with the engine(like I think the SPD thing IS), but it's pretty clear there aren't enough guards with decent rebounding stats.

I thought that's what we were talking about.

How many really athletic, good rebounding guards do you think there are in D3?  Compared to other D3 players, sure, there are plenty, but not compared to D1 guys, which is who you're comparing them to just by the nature of the ratings.  Maybe there should be a couple, but not a "decent number."
6/23/2010 6:48 PM
daalter
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grant, I truly think the biggest issue here is that your expectations are out-of-whack.
6/23/2010 6:54 PM
coach_billyg
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i am seeing all kinds of players i have never seen before. and the only players i don't really see much of that i was used to is those that are really polished, great at everything type players. i think overall, recruit diversity has increased significantly. no longer can i automatically eliminate all guards who will cap under 90 speed in d1, or under 80 in d2 (for a while it was 90 in d2 as well). same goes for bh, pass, reb, etc... i like the fact that you have to give something up to get something else.

before it was fairly obvious, here are the best 10 guys at a position, and here is the order. to some degree it depended on the team, but given a team, generally the order was fairly obvious. i think that is much less true today. in d2 it is all over the place. i am going to sign two bigs with under 50 reb to start... you would have never seen that in a million years if we played the old engine for the next million years. the guard i am signing to play sg has 39 pass and 46 bh.  there are few pristine players and d1 schools are taking them. now, it will come down to who can build the best team based on complementary skills and who can make the most of the talent they have. i think that is going to be a lot more fun than just finding the guy with 90spd/bh/pass for my pg and the guy with 90spd/per/bh for my sg season after season after season.
6/23/2010 7:40 PM
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vandydave
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so with much lesser quality players should we expect to see different game results in 3-4 seasons? should we see teams with worse shooting percentages, lower point totals, those kind of things? seems like this could impact offense more than defense
6/23/2010 9:58 PM
tkimble
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Posted by coach_billyg on 6/23/2010 7:40:00 PM (view original):
i am seeing all kinds of players i have never seen before. and the only players i don't really see much of that i was used to is those that are really polished, great at everything type players. i think overall, recruit diversity has increased significantly. no longer can i automatically eliminate all guards who will cap under 90 speed in d1, or under 80 in d2 (for a while it was 90 in d2 as well). same goes for bh, pass, reb, etc... i like the fact that you have to give something up to get something else.

before it was fairly obvious, here are the best 10 guys at a position, and here is the order. to some degree it depended on the team, but given a team, generally the order was fairly obvious. i think that is much less true today. in d2 it is all over the place. i am going to sign two bigs with under 50 reb to start... you would have never seen that in a million years if we played the old engine for the next million years. the guard i am signing to play sg has 39 pass and 46 bh.  there are few pristine players and d1 schools are taking them. now, it will come down to who can build the best team based on complementary skills and who can make the most of the talent they have. i think that is going to be a lot more fun than just finding the guy with 90spd/bh/pass for my pg and the guy with 90spd/per/bh for my sg season after season after season.
+1
6/23/2010 10:01 PM
aejones
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How come the talent in Tark was so rich? It was the best D2 players I had ever seen for sure.
6/23/2010 11:16 PM
garmansouth
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Posted by aejones on 6/23/2010 11:16:00 PM (view original):
How come the talent in Tark was so rich? It was the best D2 players I had ever seen for sure.
I agree, not many have seemed to notice. I put up some stats in the GLV board.
6/24/2010 10:15 AM
garmansouth
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Posted by garmansouth on 6/24/2010 10:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by aejones on 6/23/2010 11:16:00 PM (view original):
How come the talent in Tark was so rich? It was the best D2 players I had ever seen for sure.
I agree, not many have seemed to notice. I put up some stats in the GLV board.

Tark and Rupp are on the same exact recruiting schedule. I am an A- prestige in Tark and B+ in Rupp DII. Right now there are 184 unsigned ranked players available to me when i search DII in Tark? In Rupp 28? This is AFTER the initial signing period?? odd?

6/24/2010 10:23 AM
hughesjr
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Posted by garmansouth on 6/24/2010 10:23:00 AM (view original):
Posted by garmansouth on 6/24/2010 10:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by aejones on 6/23/2010 11:16:00 PM (view original):
How come the talent in Tark was so rich? It was the best D2 players I had ever seen for sure.
I agree, not many have seemed to notice. I put up some stats in the GLV board.

Tark and Rupp are on the same exact recruiting schedule. I am an A- prestige in Tark and B+ in Rupp DII. Right now there are 184 unsigned ranked players available to me when i search DII in Tark? In Rupp 28? This is AFTER the initial signing period?? odd?

Tark is a 2 Game/Day world ... so the recruits generated there are from the new engine.  The recruits in Rupp (a 1 game/day world) were generated in the old engine.

I do not have a team in Tark, but is it possible that guys are searching for certain parameters (like they always have) and that they signing guys who have higher potential that might not be ranked?

If not that, maybe because they have lowered overall scores a bit for most players, maybe more now qualify for drop downs to the next level?
6/24/2010 10:35 AM
anadeau24
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Posted by garmansouth on 6/24/2010 10:23:00 AM (view original):
Posted by garmansouth on 6/24/2010 10:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by aejones on 6/23/2010 11:16:00 PM (view original):
How come the talent in Tark was so rich? It was the best D2 players I had ever seen for sure.
I agree, not many have seemed to notice. I put up some stats in the GLV board.

Tark and Rupp are on the same exact recruiting schedule. I am an A- prestige in Tark and B+ in Rupp DII. Right now there are 184 unsigned ranked players available to me when i search DII in Tark? In Rupp 28? This is AFTER the initial signing period?? odd?

The new engine is showing A LOT more ranked recruits available to DII schools.  I have A+ programs in Smith and Naismith - both are showing the 1st batch of recruits generated under the new engine and both are still playing games.  In Smith I have 108 ranked recruits already on my DII seach (106 FR), in Naismith I have 87 ranked recruits already on my DII search (82 FR).
6/24/2010 10:45 AM
garmansouth
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I sent a ticket to see if Rupp is on the new engine and recruit generation. That would explain it for sure if they were not.

6/24/2010 1:31 PM
garmansouth
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Rupp is on the old engine still case closed for me!
6/24/2010 3:33 PM
grantduck
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Posted by daalter on 6/23/2010 6:54:00 PM (view original):
grant, I truly think the biggest issue here is that your expectations are out-of-whack.
I'm simply trying to get a valid explanation for why they cut speed so much in big men, that's it.  

It's clearly off and it wasn't before.

I think as someone that has paid for a good number of seasons now, a engine creator could at least give me that. 

I don't any paying customer for a product should be denied a simple explanation.


6/24/2010 11:36 PM (edited)
dalter
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I don't think it's clearly off. Again, this is coming down to your expectation of what sp for big men should be.

Guards and wing players should be faster than big men.

Have you asked seble directly, "Hey, seble, how come you decided to cut sp in big men?"
6/25/2010 12:03 AM
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