There are laws against you intentionally harming your body. There are laws against you pleasuring your body in public. There are other laws already limiting what you can and can't do to and with your body: do you oppose all those too?

Posted by dino27 on 2/7/2019 11:52:00 AM (view original):
no one thinks you cant opine on it but a man is certainly at a disadvantage by not being able to physically experience it...a man should not fail to try to imagine being pregnant before opining.

That post doesn’t make any sense. The point is there aren’t any laws that force a man to do something to their bodies that they don’t want to do.

for the record i would be the last person to be offended by strong opponents of abortion no matter how pro choice i am.....
most opponents truly think it is murder so how can i fault them.
it just goes around in circles.....but the opponents should be able to at least try to understand that pro choice people have a different opinion and dont consider it murder.
so we should respect well reasoned laws and the will of society.

Does not the physican's oath to do "no harm" extend to the Baby? I believe it does. Thus, any Doctor who willingly decides an abortion should be performed is making a determination as to what is the least harm in the specific situation. At least ethically. Abortion opponents want to have government intrude into the Hippocratic "oath" and let the State decide what's best in the specific medical situation.

It is true that there ARE Doctors with no or little ethics. But the question is whom do I trust with this power of intrusion into the families sacred health decisions and privacy.......... the Doctors or the Government?? Easy choice for me. I love my Country. I KNOW to fear my government. I know to keep it's role limited and it's power controlled by the People!

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/7/2019 7:42:00 AM (view original):
Next topic: Formal education

I will go into more detail a little later, but to get the topic rolling I will start with this. With the exception of a few science related fields, formal education in its career state is completely useless. With today's technology and resources, I can learn everything for free that would cost me a minimum of $80 grand in college.

Apprenticeships are a lost art. They are well more beneficial than classroom learning.

Like I say, I will go into more detail later, but lets hear your opinions on the subject.

we don't need no education
we don't need no thought control

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/7/2019 10:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/7/2019 7:42:00 AM (view original):
Next topic: Formal education

I will go into more detail a little later, but to get the topic rolling I will start with this. With the exception of a few science related fields, formal education in its career state is completely useless. With today's technology and resources, I can learn everything for free that would cost me a minimum of $80 grand in college.

Apprenticeships are a lost art. They are well more beneficial than classroom learning.

Like I say, I will go into more detail later, but lets hear your opinions on the subject.

My friend who is a plumber is a millionaire. If I could do it all over again, I'd be an apprentice and then have my own company. White collar jobs can earn more but not always. My finance teacher told us this joke one time. His friend, a retired investment banker had his hot water heater blow out. It was a late night in December and he called a plumber. The man did the job in two hours and then gave a bill for $1,600 for the labor. The retired I Banker was shocked. $1,600? That is $800 per hour. Chap, that is more than I made as an investment banker. The plumber smiled at him and said, "This is more than I made as an investment banker too".

Nothing wrong with trade schools. Plumbers, HVAC, electricians, etc.

My 17 year old son (or one of them, at least) has decided that college is not for him. he enrolled in a program offered by a few of the construction companies in the area to learn the trades. His general goal is to become an electrician. My wife and I told him we didn't care if he want to college or not, so long as he had a plan to support himself through his life. He does, and we are helping him in any way we can. Quite proud of him!

Nice! Excellent as well.

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/7/2019 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Late term abortions almost never happen. When they do, it’s because there is a problem with the pregnancy.

If your argument is that abortions after viability should be outlawed, I’m telling you that you’d only be outlawing abortions that are medically necessary.

Do you understand?

If medically necessary then they should happen but you missed my overall point. YOU ALWAYS ARGUE based on rare cases. ALWAYS. Like the trans in bathroom cases or playing sports. I am saying late term abortions can happen and are allowed. Do you think they should be if NOT for medical reasons even in rare cases. Yes or No? Seems simple. Just respond with one word.

1) You don't get to demand how I answer your questions.

2) If someone is arguing that abortion (or anything) should never, under any circumstance, be allowed, it makes sense to ask about extreme examples.

3) At the same time, if I'm arguing that abortion should always be allowed, it's fair for you to bring up extreme examples going the other way.

So my answer to your question of whether or not we should allow abortions past 24 (or whatever) weeks is yes because those abortions are never "I really can't raise a kid right now this was a huge mistake" abortions. They are always, "ma'am we have terrible news, the test came back..." abortions.

Posted by wylie715 on 2/7/2019 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/7/2019 10:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 2/7/2019 7:42:00 AM (view original):
Next topic: Formal education

I will go into more detail a little later, but to get the topic rolling I will start with this. With the exception of a few science related fields, formal education in its career state is completely useless. With today's technology and resources, I can learn everything for free that would cost me a minimum of $80 grand in college.

Apprenticeships are a lost art. They are well more beneficial than classroom learning.

Like I say, I will go into more detail later, but lets hear your opinions on the subject.

My friend who is a plumber is a millionaire. If I could do it all over again, I'd be an apprentice and then have my own company. White collar jobs can earn more but not always. My finance teacher told us this joke one time. His friend, a retired investment banker had his hot water heater blow out. It was a late night in December and he called a plumber. The man did the job in two hours and then gave a bill for $1,600 for the labor. The retired I Banker was shocked. $1,600? That is $800 per hour. Chap, that is more than I made as an investment banker. The plumber smiled at him and said, "This is more than I made as an investment banker too".

Nothing wrong with trade schools. Plumbers, HVAC, electricians, etc.

My 17 year old son (or one of them, at least) has decided that college is not for him. he enrolled in a program offered by a few of the construction companies in the area to learn the trades. His general goal is to become an electrician. My wife and I told him we didn't care if he want to college or not, so long as he had a plan to support himself through his life. He dos, and we are helping him in any way we can. Quite proud of him!

That is exactly how ALL parents should be.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 1:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/7/2019 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Late term abortions almost never happen. When they do, it’s because there is a problem with the pregnancy.

If your argument is that abortions after viability should be outlawed, I’m telling you that you’d only be outlawing abortions that are medically necessary.

Do you understand?

If medically necessary then they should happen but you missed my overall point. YOU ALWAYS ARGUE based on rare cases. ALWAYS. Like the trans in bathroom cases or playing sports. I am saying late term abortions can happen and are allowed. Do you think they should be if NOT for medical reasons even in rare cases. Yes or No? Seems simple. Just respond with one word.

1) You don't get to demand how I answer your questions.

2) If someone is arguing that abortion (or anything) should never, under any circumstance, be allowed, it makes sense to ask about extreme examples.

3) At the same time, if I'm arguing that abortion should always be allowed, it's fair for you to bring up extreme examples going the other way.

So my answer to your question of whether or not we should allow abortions past 24 (or whatever) weeks is yes because those abortions are never "I really can't raise a kid right now this was a huge mistake" abortions. They are always, "ma'am we have terrible news, the test came back..." abortions.

NEVER? So that has NEVER happened? OK....

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 1:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/7/2019 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Late term abortions almost never happen. When they do, it’s because there is a problem with the pregnancy.

If your argument is that abortions after viability should be outlawed, I’m telling you that you’d only be outlawing abortions that are medically necessary.

Do you understand?

If medically necessary then they should happen but you missed my overall point. YOU ALWAYS ARGUE based on rare cases. ALWAYS. Like the trans in bathroom cases or playing sports. I am saying late term abortions can happen and are allowed. Do you think they should be if NOT for medical reasons even in rare cases. Yes or No? Seems simple. Just respond with one word.

1) You don't get to demand how I answer your questions.

2) If someone is arguing that abortion (or anything) should never, under any circumstance, be allowed, it makes sense to ask about extreme examples.

3) At the same time, if I'm arguing that abortion should always be allowed, it's fair for you to bring up extreme examples going the other way.

So my answer to your question of whether or not we should allow abortions past 24 (or whatever) weeks is yes because those abortions are never "I really can't raise a kid right now this was a huge mistake" abortions. They are always, "ma'am we have terrible news, the test came back..." abortions.

You're wrong again! Shocking, I know.

Results: Women aged 20–24 were more likely than those aged 25–34 to have a later abortion (odds ratio, 2.7), and women who discovered their pregnancy before eight weeks’ gestation were less likely than others to do so (0.1). Later abortion recipients experienced logistical delays (e.g., difficulty finding a provider and raising funds for the procedure and travel costs), which compounded other delays in receiving care. Most women seeking later abortion fit at least one of five profiles: They were raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous.

https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2013/11/who-seeks-abortions-or-after-20-weeks

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/7/2019 2:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 1:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/7/2019 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Late term abortions almost never happen. When they do, it’s because there is a problem with the pregnancy.

If your argument is that abortions after viability should be outlawed, I’m telling you that you’d only be outlawing abortions that are medically necessary.

Do you understand?

If medically necessary then they should happen but you missed my overall point. YOU ALWAYS ARGUE based on rare cases. ALWAYS. Like the trans in bathroom cases or playing sports. I am saying late term abortions can happen and are allowed. Do you think they should be if NOT for medical reasons even in rare cases. Yes or No? Seems simple. Just respond with one word.

1) You don't get to demand how I answer your questions.

2) If someone is arguing that abortion (or anything) should never, under any circumstance, be allowed, it makes sense to ask about extreme examples.

3) At the same time, if I'm arguing that abortion should always be allowed, it's fair for you to bring up extreme examples going the other way.

So my answer to your question of whether or not we should allow abortions past 24 (or whatever) weeks is yes because those abortions are never "I really can't raise a kid right now this was a huge mistake" abortions. They are always, "ma'am we have terrible news, the test came back..." abortions.

You're wrong again! Shocking, I know.

Results: Women aged 20–24 were more likely than those aged 25–34 to have a later abortion (odds ratio, 2.7), and women who discovered their pregnancy before eight weeks’ gestation were less likely than others to do so (0.1). Later abortion recipients experienced logistical delays (e.g., difficulty finding a provider and raising funds for the procedure and travel costs), which compounded other delays in receiving care. Most women seeking later abortion fit at least one of five profiles: They were raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous.

https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2013/11/who-seeks-abortions-or-after-20-weeks

20 weeks is still pre-viability. Viability is between 24 and 26 weeks, depending on the size of the fetus.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 2:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/7/2019 2:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 1:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 2/7/2019 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 10:17:00 AM (view original):
Late term abortions almost never happen. When they do, it’s because there is a problem with the pregnancy.

If your argument is that abortions after viability should be outlawed, I’m telling you that you’d only be outlawing abortions that are medically necessary.

Do you understand?

If medically necessary then they should happen but you missed my overall point. YOU ALWAYS ARGUE based on rare cases. ALWAYS. Like the trans in bathroom cases or playing sports. I am saying late term abortions can happen and are allowed. Do you think they should be if NOT for medical reasons even in rare cases. Yes or No? Seems simple. Just respond with one word.

1) You don't get to demand how I answer your questions.

2) If someone is arguing that abortion (or anything) should never, under any circumstance, be allowed, it makes sense to ask about extreme examples.

3) At the same time, if I'm arguing that abortion should always be allowed, it's fair for you to bring up extreme examples going the other way.

So my answer to your question of whether or not we should allow abortions past 24 (or whatever) weeks is yes because those abortions are never "I really can't raise a kid right now this was a huge mistake" abortions. They are always, "ma'am we have terrible news, the test came back..." abortions.

You're wrong again! Shocking, I know.

Results: Women aged 20–24 were more likely than those aged 25–34 to have a later abortion (odds ratio, 2.7), and women who discovered their pregnancy before eight weeks’ gestation were less likely than others to do so (0.1). Later abortion recipients experienced logistical delays (e.g., difficulty finding a provider and raising funds for the procedure and travel costs), which compounded other delays in receiving care. Most women seeking later abortion fit at least one of five profiles: They were raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous.

https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2013/11/who-seeks-abortions-or-after-20-weeks

20 weeks is still pre-viability. Viability is between 24 and 26 weeks, depending on the size of the fetus.

AFTER 20 weeks....not just 20 weeks. Sorry, your argument doesn't fly.

But “after 20 weeks” includes 21 and 22 and 23. They don’t specificy so it’s a bad source for this discussion.

Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2019 2:34:00 PM (view original):
But “after 20 weeks” includes 21 and 22 and 23. They don’t specificy so it’s a bad source for this discussion.

You said NEVER....I doubt the answer is NEVER.

They were raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous.

These reasons are the same whether it is week 20 or week 30.