NAC Conference Topic

Quote: Originally Posted By cyben5150 on 11/30/2007mizzou, re: HOF requirements. 700 seems a bit high for a ratings floor. My NAC team in Crum conference has a guy who will graduate as a two time conference player of the year, two time conference defensive player of the year, 3rd team all-american, and the NAC all-time leader in blocks. His final overall rating was 655, so a guy who dominated a conference for 2 seasons and was the leader of the #2 team in the country his senior season would fall short of enshrinement.

I don't think I've ever coached a DIII player that was rated 700 or above. I think my former recruit Zeisler ended up reaching that, but I was gone before he played a game.

I think it needs to be more stat/accomplishment based than ratings based. Who cares if a guy is only rated 500 or 600 overall if he can put up the numbers and win the conference awards? What he does on the court is what will end up dictating where he truly stands among the conferences greats.

Of course, I'm just an interim coach in this fine upstanding conference, so take what I say as you will
As head beaver, I approve of this message.
11/30/2007 11:23 PM
Yeah 700 is tough, but Zeis got there and would be our only deserving member thus far....He was a Stud, and led his team to many wins. I'm good with that.... he and Ralph Koffler were the only players in my opinion that would be talented enough to be in the NAC "Elite Players Club" thus far after my 4 or 5 seasons around here.... They were both men amoung boys. 650 is ok... but lots of people get to 650. Stats alone also don't make a guy what I think is qualified. I probably would have voted no on Koffler,,, because he shot 50 times a game and made 15. He may have averaged 30+ ppg but he was the reason for more losses than wins.. IMHO.
700 maybe needs to be more of a goal than a minimun. I actually figure that if 75% of the coaches feel a player is deserving... he's in.
So in 4 seasons we have seen several good players, several very good players... but (once again, IMHO) only 2 NAC "Elite Players Club" caliber players, and I think the general feeling around the NAC was that only one of those would have been "enshrined".
12/1/2007 11:45 PM
Ironically, you say that stats alone don't make a guy, yet you use stats as the reason you wouldn't enshrine Koffler. A shooting percentage like that would preclude anyone from being considered great.

My main concern with a hard floor would be that you have those rare guys like Glenn on my other team who sweep the conference awards both junior and senior season, and lead the team to a #2 ranking senior year...but would fail to qualify because his rating was a meager 655. But, if you guys would still vote on a player like that and 700 is a goal and not a minimum...then it won't be an issue.
12/2/2007 9:59 AM
have to seal this moment in history...

On December 9th, 2007, the Elms Blazers found their name at the top of the list in the North division of the NAC. After a brief celebration, Coach Elmore held a small press conference where he had this to say:

Captain Obvious: Coach, how does it feel to be number one?

Coach Elmore: We're thrilled to be in this position at this point in the season. I have to give credit to my kids.. they come out and work hard every day.

Debbie Downer: Coach, I just wanted to point out that you're only listed at the top of your division due to an alphabetical organization of the three-way tie that exists in the North. Any response?

Coach Elmore: Again, we're happy to be where we are, no matter the circumstances. We're just going to continue to go out there and give it 100%; one game at a time.

Ms. Downer: Your Blazers have yet to play a conference game; isn't it a little early for any sort of celebration?

Coach Elmore: Well, if you've followed Elms basketball at all for the last few years, then you'll understand the logic behind celebrating over anything positive whatsoever. There's obviously a buzz in the media surrounding this team as well... why else would you all be here?

*murmurs amongst the crowd*

Anonymous: ... You told us to be here..
12/9/2007 10:28 AM
With 10 games in the regular season.
North Standings South Standings
Becker 5-0 Mount Ida 6-0
Husson 5-1 Presque Isle 3-3
Lasell 2-3 Thomas 3-3
Elms 2-3 Farmington 2-4
Johnson St 2-3 Salem St 2-4
Castelton 1-5 MMA 1-5
Now with RPI's and overall records:
Husson 12-4 #46 Mount Ida 12-4 #36
Lasell 9- 6 52 Thomas 8 -8 42
Elms 9- 6 125 Farmington 7 -9 142
Becker 6- 9 276 Presque Isle 10- 6 247
Johnson 3-12 303 Salem St 6-10 230
Castelton 2-14 376 MMA 4-12 373
4 possible tourney teams???..... which is an improvement.
Next season 5-6 ???
12/16/2007 10:14 PM
Well gents, ku is back, so seems that my work here is done. Twas nice to be back coaching there; you guys are making a good name for the conference. Good luck to you all for the rest of the season, and if you're ever looking for another DIII team, join me in the NAC in Crum.
12/17/2007 8:10 PM
Hey GL Cyben,,, thanks for helpin out our Bud, mate.
12/18/2007 4:47 AM
great job cyben it was great having you
12/19/2007 12:24 PM
I'd have to come in under an alias. but NAC Crum isn't out of the question.
12/19/2007 1:54 PM
I had a few minutes to look over the NAC.
Here are my observations looking into next season.
I ran ratings out to seasons end... added offseason, and subtracted graduates.
These are my predicted Rating #'s for each team to begin the season... Walk-ons will obviously dilute these somewhat.
North Division....
Husson 520 2 grads... will hurt a little. (Getting Better)
Lasell 510 also grads 2, minor pains (Getting Better)
Becker 510 2 grads, but little if any loss, (major Improvement)
Elms 490 only loses one, but he's a Stud... ( getting better)
J ST. 475 Grads 5 sr's, it could be painful, 4 of 5 starters
Castelton 445 6 open schollys. (live coach or it will get ugly here)
South Division....
Mount Ida 545 2 very solid players grad, (but still very powerful)
Salem St 545 no grads. Dangerous! (This team will be the surprise of the season)
Thomas 540 4 grads, however only 2 play much. (should be very good)
Farmington 485 3 grads, (should reload and be improved)
MMA 480 3 grads, 1 counts, (but should be improved) starts 5 frosh!
UMPI 465 6 open scholls, (the Ghost-Ship is crumbleing)
The power may be swinging to the South! Lasell and Husson may need to put the hurry-ups on the re-builds to keep up! Becker and Elms are getting better tho to help us hold on. Tex looks like he will be joining us in the re-building and Biggies boys are needing a human coach bad.
Merry-CHRISTmas to everyone in the NAC.
Hope you have a great Holiday
12/24/2007 12:21 PM
I'd bet the farm that biggies is out after this season. It's his 5th one and I am hoping he only bought a 5-season pack. I plan to play above my ranking next season, but will go hard after 1-2 stud rebounders. I'll gladly take on a walk on to insure two good rebounders.
12/24/2007 2:02 PM
With the talk of conference studs (and me not wanting to work this week), I figured the best place to look for one in the future is to take a look at the current redshirts. Ziegler (the current gold standard it would seem) redshirted and I think it's going to be very difficult for us to get a player up to those levels in just four seasons of practice.

This year's candidates:

Michael Lockhart (Lasell). Lockhart looks very promising. As a point of reference, here are the numbers for my Michael Scott at the end of his redshirt year that is getting a lot of love right now on the message board: ATH-35, SPD-26, REB-56, LP-69. At the end of his sophomore year, Scott is at ATH-47, SPD-35, REB-80, LP-89. Scott is already one of the top handful of big men in the conference as a sophomore. Here are Lockhart's numbers after his redshirt: ATH-40, SPD-42, REB-71, LP-68. Imagine how good this guy will be. Scott practices passing -- and has also had GPA problems. Lockhart won't be spending nearly as many minutes in those categories and has a higher work ethic. He'll probably enter his Junior year with REB and LP ratings over 90 with ATH and SPD in the low 50's. Lasell is probably too balanced, but this guy is a potential NPOY candidate if he develops properly.

The bad: (1) Has no other categories that are improvable. It's a wonderful problem to have, but Lasell is going to be wasting his practice minutes as a upperclassman since he'll already be maxed out. (2) Poor free throw shooter. He'll get a ton of offensive boards and will get sent to the line on the putbacks but might not be able to make teams pay for fouling him. 'Clock-a-Lock' might be the new 'Hack-a-Shaq'

Reed Mendenhall (Husson). Redshirt PG with good work ethic. Don't see stardom in his future as the ATH/SPD is good but not special and he's below average from the perimeter. But he'll be a senior point guard that will have learned how to shoot the rock respectably. And he'll be around 90 in both ball handling and passing with a A+ ranking running the triangle. That's the kind of floor general that can win you a championship.

Adam Jackson (Elms). Interesting to say the least. Jackson didn't take the redshirt. Elms didn't care (or more likely didn't notice) and didn't remove it. The decline in WE is actually pretty mild and at 42 is at a level that it probably will have minimal impact on his long term development. Jackson isn't too much different that Mendenhall. Both have good point guard skills. Both have poor shooting skills that can be salvaged. Refusing the redshirt means that Mendenhall now has a WE advantage. But Jackson's got a much better SPD rating. Both will be good, but give me Jackson if I can only take one.

Matthew Jent (Johnson St.). Don't recruit a SF at the DIII level ... unless you can redshirt him. That's what texaskaze pulled off here. Not sure how I feel about Jent. He's got a great inside outside game. The PER and LP numbers are at 50 already. And his rebounding number of 35 isn't terrible for a SF and will be solid by the time he's an upperclassmen. Don't see him as a star though since the ATH is at 37 and the SPD is at 19. He's going to get burnt on the defensive end and the low ATH and SPD will prevent him from getting as many good looks as he should otherwise get from the excellent PER/LP numbers.

John Wells (Maine, Farmington). Another one that didn't take the redshirt and his decline in WE (just 10 points) was much less than Jackson's. You don't complain about that low a drop. Wells is a SG with a 35 rebounding rating. Wonder if kmfloyd is looking to develop a SG or a SF. Doesn't have the LP to be a stud SF. Even though he's a SG, he's actually a bit similiar to Mendenhall and Jackson in that his ball handling and passing exceed his perimeter ranking. He's probably ever so slightly behind the two in the guard skills, but the rebounding talent might make him a better overall player. The kid is smart and it looks like he'll hit the A+ in IQ a bit faster than the other redshirts.

Jason Gutenberg (Salem St.). Wow. A junior that accepted the redshirt (without it being forced on him) after playing 17.3 minutes as a freshman and 13.8 as a sophomore. He might be the the most important redshirt of all. Salem State looks like they have the potential to be very, very good 2 years from now when their 8 sophomores are seniors. The only weakness appears to be that the team has too much front court depth: 5 guards, 1 SF, and 2 centers. With Gutenberg now becoming the 9th member of that class, he will probably be a backup to Moore and Giglio when they get tired or are in foul trouble. Gutenberg isn't that good -- I'd say he's below average for his age and even with the extra year I think he'll still be worse than most other juniors next year. But as a senior he's going to have an A rating in the offense and defense and will have respectable ratings for a backup player. Since Salem State isn't recruiting this offseason, without Gutenberg in two years, the backup post players would be freshmen/transfers. It sounds silly, but Gutenberg might be the final piece for a Salem State Final Four run in two years. (And yes, I'm probably getting way ahead of myself for a team that just finished with a 234 RPI. But I think that starting five is really, really good.)

Willie Coder (Maine Maritime). Double wow. A sophomore that accepted the redshirt (without it being forced on him) that started in 23 of 27 games as a freshman and played in 19.9 points per game. I'm really interested to see how this guy does. Coder was my backup option as a recruit if I couldn't get the guys I wanted. He had a 3.92 HS GPA and a WE of 70 and for a big man had a very impressive high school FT% of 81.9. None of his categories were impressive, but all could be developed -- including DEF which did nothing for me. He seemed like a perfect redshirt candidate for me and I was a bit disappointed that MMA didn't redshirt him last year. But it somehow worked this year. And MMA plays the man so that does help him too. Coder also played MMA's o/d sets in high school. With his GPA and WE, I wouldn't be surprised if he plays both his Junior and Senior years at A+/A+ the entire time. His WE almost assures he's going to get the FT ranking from a A to a A+ as well. I might be wrong on this. But with his level of IQ and FT for a big man, Coder might actually be the second most effective redshirt in this class when all is said and done. He isn't as talented as the Mendenhall/Jackson/Wells trio. But he might be a more effective player.
1/2/2008 4:34 PM
What do you guys think about MMA?

It is an interesting team. I wonder if they'll be any good in a couple of years. I'm guessing not -- they were outrebounded by a 3-2 margin this year and it doesn't look like things will get much better for them. And I'm not sure you can be good in this game if you rebound so poorly.

They started five freshman this year. They also redshirted Coder so next year they will have 6 sophomores and 3 juniors. If they run out a starting lineup next year of Slemp, Schuetz, Webster, Coder and Mueller next year, they will be a team that has FT rankings of A+, A+, A, A, and A-. Webster has a WE of 90 and Coder is at 76. With offseason development, they might start 4 A+ FT guys next year. I'm not sure if you can win a game from the free throw line on a regular basis, but I guess this will be the guinea pig.

They also have an interesting 5 guard lineup of Slemp, Schuetz, Webster, Jenkins, and Young. Young has good ATH/SPD, but the other four all slightly below average. All of them have single digit rankings in rebounding. Each has average to below average rankings in DEF. All are below average in PER and all have average rankings in PH and P. All have high WE and all shoot freethrows very well. It's like MMA chose to recruit 5 of the exact same player.

Any chance this team can win? The 364 RPI knocked myself and Mount Ida out of the tourney this year.
1/2/2008 4:47 PM
And speaking of the tourney. I actually didn't want to go to the dance since this year's team was more a product of cyben5150's coaching than my own. So I was happy to miss out on the dance. But is it typical to miss out on the NT with a 50 RPI and 28 SOS in favor (among others) of a team with a 63 RPI and 48 SOS? 50 RPI is right on the bubble and I'm actually happy to have missed out. But I was surprised to have been skipped over by so many other teams, especially the one with a 63 RPI.

Mount Ida would have been a lot better choice for the NT than that one.
1/2/2008 4:49 PM
I'm thinking the non conf sched will put MMA in a bit of a bind next year. Eight sims could result in a good record but torch the RPI. They should be good enough not to be overlooked.
1/2/2008 4:50 PM
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