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Quote: Originally posted by dalter on 2/18/2010Also, as another top coach just sitemailed me, recruiting is already way too driven by # of open scholarships. A change like this would only exacerbate that issue.

This is true.

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 2/18/2010FYI, I've reversed this change after it was pointed out to me why it was there. My thinking was that it hurts coaches taking over new schools with more than 6 openings, which was why I made the change. I ask that everyone please wipe this event from their memory and pretend I'm not a moron

we are waiting to hear from the booth, they have been looking at the video feed for about 90 seconds, upon further review......

just my 2 cents I'm sure it's been said but this is horrible change.



Any change that leads people to wanting to game the system is bad and that's exactly what this will lead too.

dalter - Can you tell me why you think 6 is a good number?

davey - how will teams game the system like this?

Quote: Originally posted by daveymac on 2/18/2010just my 2 cents I'm sure it's been said but this is horrible change. Any change that leads people to wanting to game the system is bad and that's exactly what this will lead too.

not sure if you read the thread but he reversed it

dalter, can you propose a class layout one might use to "game the system"? for example, in some of my teams, i like to run with class sizes of 4-4-2-2, no walk ons. if i was going to run with 1 walkon every season, i might do 3-4-2-2. i would really like to see this class layout that allows people to game the extra 15 or 30k on a regular basis.

THIS COMMENT IS INTENDED FOR DI ONLY

The way the system is currently set up (and by system it means recruiting), most good classes are the product of recruiting players which you don't have to battle for and maybe winning one battle mixed in. If you get into two battles you're lucky to win one and sometimes can win two. Three rarely happens.

Daler's points do not make sense to me as they are based on a recruiting which simply does not exist @ DI.

I am one of the biggest proponents of EE's but you cannot have it both ways. WIS took away classes of more than 6, fine. We each curtail our rosters accordingly to comply with those rules. But when you had to the mix a class of 5 Srs., and 3 EEs, along with money for only 6 players AND the manner in which recruiting is currently set up, not funding each opening makes no sense and is inherently unfair to those coaches affected.

And you know what Dalter. Yes, it might only benefit team like Illinois and UNC in Phelan or Georgetown in Tark next season. But look at what it takes to build a program to that level, get the school to where you wanted it AND then have it destroyed by EE's and not having the ability to bring in even a class of 5 or 6 solid players because you cannot afford to fight for players even with an A+ prestige. Sure you can lower the expectations and recruit as though youre a B school which the end result would be the same.

I havent looked at UNC's class thus far but the early results at Illinois are specifically what I'm talking about.

You have not given any particular good reason as to why the restriction is six.

Coach Billy's comments were also pretty spot on an inline with my point in its entirety.

Quote: Originally posted by sully712 on 2/18/2010davey - how will teams game the system like this?

Let me put out a situation for you.

Im in the big east. I have 2 scholarships and 6 seniors with an A- prestige. There are 2 schools near me that have 5 scholarships with A+ prestiges. My team is already solid and if I try to recruit this season I will end up with not that good recruits because the A+ schools can beat me in any battle. I decide to not recruit at all and play this year with a 10 man team, improve my prestige this year, then recruit with money for 8 scholarships next year and wreck everyone.

This is all fine and dandy except for the fact that it is not realistic at all. This will never happen in real life, ever.

Quote: Originally Posted By coach_billyg on 2/18/2010dalter, can you propose a class layout one might use to "game the system"? for example, in some of my teams, i like to run with class sizes of 4-4-2-2, no walk ons. if i was going to run with 1 walkon every season, i might do 3-4-2-2. i would really like to see this class layout that allows people to game the extra 15 or 30k on a regular basis

Exactly.

As I said to you (billy) via sitemail, I'm not saying it's on a regular basis, or that it would be absolutely rampant. I'm just saying that I don't want people taking multiple walk-ons to not have to face any repercussions, and this lets them off just about free.

But basically any time that you take multiple walk-ons and then the following year you already had a class of 4-6, that would fit the bill.

You want to get into a bunch of battles and take the risk? I have zero problem with that. But that action simply can not be without some real consequences.

EDIT: I have already said that I'd be OK with it in cases where it occurred due to a team getting hit by early entries. Can we agree that if such a change is implemented, it would be to help teams crushed by early entries, and not to bail out those who took multiple walk-ons?

Quote: Originally posted by tmacfan12 on 2/18/2010

Quote: Originally posted by sully712 on 2/18/2010davey - how will teams game the system like this?

Let me put out a situation for you.

Im in the big east. I have 2 scholarships and 6 seniors with an A- prestige. There are 2 schools near me that have 5 scholarships with A+ prestiges. My team is already solid and if I try to recruit this season I will end up with not that good recruits because the A+ schools can beat me in any battle. I decide to not recruit at all and play this year with a 10 man team, improve my prestige this year, then recruit with money for 8 scholarships next year and wreck everyone.

This is all fine and dandy except for the fact that it is not realistic at all. This will never happen in real life, ever.

and when you have 4 players returning next season, your team prestige will be SO screwed by the next 1-2 seasons, you will be lucky if you can ever make it back to that A- prestige again ;)

Quote: Originally posted by dalter on 2/18/2010As I said to you (billy) via sitemail, I'm not saying it's on a regular basis, or that it would be absolutely rampant. I'm just saying that I don't want people taking multiple walk-ons to not have to face any repercussions, and this lets them off just about free.But basically any time that you take multiple walk-ons and then the following year you already had a class of 4-6, that would fit the bill. You want to get into a bunch of battles and take the risk? I have zero problem with that. But that action simply can not be without consequences.NOTE: I have already said that I'd be OK with it in cases where it occurred due to a team getting hit by early entries.

its not at all without consequence. keep in mind if you have more than 6 openings, you have less than 6 returning. an a+ prestige is not guaranteed to a large number of coaches out there... people are going to feel the pain if they put themselves in this situation.

Quote: Originally Posted By tmacfan12 on 2/18/2010

Quote: Originally posted by sully712 on 2/18/2010 davey - how will teams game the system like this?

Let me put out a situation for you.

Im in the big east. I have 2 scholarships and 6 seniors with an A- prestige. There are 2 schools near me that have 5 scholarships with A+ prestiges. My team is already solid and if I try to recruit this season I will end up with not that good recruits because the A+ schools can beat me in any battle. I decide to not recruit at all and play this year with a 10 man team, improve my prestige this year, then recruit with money for 8 scholarships next year and wreck everyone.

This is all fine and dandy except for the fact that it is not realistic at all. This will never happen in real life, ever.

You'd still only be able to sign 6. And it wouldnt be any different than if you had those spots anyhow and no one chose to battle you for recruits as happens all the time anyhow the only difference is in this instance youll have 15-30k more than your normally would. Alot of recruiting is a crap shoot. If I jump on a guy that a team with 6 open scholarships and a high prestige is also on. Im less likely to battle for the recruit. If by chance 4 other coaches ended up involved with that same coach, I might be more inclined to do so.