Maybe I watched too many Sixers' games in the later 80s, but I think I have to take

                                                                         CHARLES BARKLEY

in this spot.  25 - 12 - 4 every night while shooting 60% from the floor and getting to the line a ton, plus he can excel in any tempo game.  (Not to mention he draws the fans, which will be good for the team's bottom-line.)

To me Duncan being considered the greatest PF of all-time is a sham.  The guy played the role of a true center offensively and defensively and is bigger than many of the all-time great centers.  I mean... SA calls him a PF and starts a 6'7" guy next to him and calls that guy a Center.  WTF?

Even if you call him a PF, I still have my doubts.  I'm not a person that sees rings and proclaims a guy.  Dirk?  Please.  Top 10 at the position, yes, but just because he finally got a ring doesn't make him better than Malone or Barkley.

Truthfully, though, PF is the most unclear position to dispute.

Let's break it down.

Duncan - no holes in his game.  He's called the Big Fundamental for a reason.  He's not the best offensive pf that ever lived, but he's straight up great at everything.  He was a tremendous defender.

Mailman - he really had no holes in his game.  He wasn't a bad defender and was (imo) without question the best offensive player to play the position

Barkley - He did more at 6'4" than guys half a foot taller than him could even dream of.  The guy had desire and it showed.  Go back and watch Chuck before his Suns days... he was unguardable.  And he did the hustle plays.  Only knock was his man defense (he was a really good help defender), and as much as you'd like to blame that on size, it was desire.  When it came down to it and he displayed that he wanted to, he could shut guys down much bigger than him (lol @ the Admiral).

Garnett - Offensively he doesn't belong in the same discussion as Mailman or Chuck, yet you cannot deny his defensive prowess (and it's not like he's bad offensively - he's actually really good - just not the same class).

McHale - Ever hear the expression, "He doesn't have Kevin McHale-like post moves" ??  Bad knees and sharing the court with a bunch of hall of famers keeps this guy from being further up the list.  At the same time, I think the 2nd part is part of why he's as high as he is.  The guy was a stud, though.

Dirk - He's much like chuck in that he's an offensive guru that isn't big on defense.  Unlike Chuck, he has a ring.  And unlike Chuck, he didn't make the hustle plays (what's a rebound?).  Also, unlike Chuck, he didn't play in the Magic/Bird era immediately followed by the Jordan era.  But I got to give the guy credit... amazing offensive player and this year he showed me something I always questioned.

Pettit - hard to compare this guy since the game has changed so much, but when he retired he was the all-time leading scorer and rebounder in the league (I think?).  He set the standard.

Rodman - He's not Bill Russell, but he fulfilled a similar need... and has five rings to prove it.  He's gotta be in the discussion for greatest rebounder of all-time... at 6-8 and skinny. 

There's other names to go here... fun discussion.

I will bring it up again since I think its gotten buried in here, if we are going to rank these teams or do a tournament or something, we need to even the rounds out. Its skewed towards the A of ABABA atm. Adding a 6th round would fix it.. whether its just 1 player or 2 idc.

I think adding a sixth man might be crucial to the process as well. You obviously wouldn't draft someone who doesn't fit the mold.

We could stipulate no multiple time all stars and no hall of famers. Pick 2 guys.

For my sandwich picks, I'm gonna go big and go small....

For the first 7 years of his career, he averaged AT LEAST 23 points and 11 rebounds per season---including 1 scoring title, 1 rebounding title and 1 blocked shots title.   Hard to beat those stats.   His 1990-1991 season was probably the best.   10 time All-Star, 2 rings(he wasn't the main cog for either, but his big-man combo with Tim Duncan made the Spurs into a championship contender).   He didn't have the longevity of some----his Navy commitment had something to do with that as well.  But his numbers really didn't drop off dramatically until he was 35.   Although I've always hated San Antonio being a Dallas fan, I've always respected the man----The Admiral, David Robinson

And at point guard, this was really tough.   I really thought about another PG(which I'll reveal when he is picked---I'm sure he will be in this round).    This man, to me, was the perfect point guard----had good assist numbers, great defender(9 time 1st team All-Defense team, plus a Defensive Player of the Year award winner), was a dangerous 3-point shooter if you sagged off on him, and played with an attitude.   I'd probably go with his 1994-1995 season for his all-around game.  His ring in his last year was pretty cheap....the biggest knock on him, in my opinion, was the constant moving around that he did in his career(was traded 5 times----that tells me that he probably wasn't the world's best teammate)----The Glove, Gary Payton

I was hoping that Robinson would slide back down - but I didn't expect him to. He would have been the perfect second banana for Kobe.

I like ababb

not a fan of just doing 6 guys... if you're going to get a bench, should be able to go 8 deep for realistic rotations.  In that case I'd say abababab would be fine.

I could go for 8.

i like 8

Posted by xxevilivexx on 8/11/2011 6:12:00 PM (view original):
This might get some flack, but I'd build around a model of consistency and take John Stockton

Im sorry but Stockton doesn't belong in the 1st round! It's all good though, we all make mistakes lol. His biggest weakness was finishing around the rim and inconsistent shooting. Great player/career but not top 12 material whatsoever!

Posted by ashamael on 8/11/2011 8:57:00 PM (view original):
To me Duncan being considered the greatest PF of all-time is a sham.  The guy played the role of a true center offensively and defensively and is bigger than many of the all-time great centers.  I mean... SA calls him a PF and starts a 6'7" guy next to him and calls that guy a Center.  WTF?

Even if you call him a PF, I still have my doubts.  I'm not a person that sees rings and proclaims a guy.  Dirk?  Please.  Top 10 at the position, yes, but just because he finally got a ring doesn't make him better than Malone or Barkley.

Truthfully, though, PF is the most unclear position to dispute.

Let's break it down.

Duncan - no holes in his game.  He's called the Big Fundamental for a reason.  He's not the best offensive pf that ever lived, but he's straight up great at everything.  He was a tremendous defender.

Mailman - he really had no holes in his game.  He wasn't a bad defender and was (imo) without question the best offensive player to play the position

Barkley - He did more at 6'4" than guys half a foot taller than him could even dream of.  The guy had desire and it showed.  Go back and watch Chuck before his Suns days... he was unguardable.  And he did the hustle plays.  Only knock was his man defense (he was a really good help defender), and as much as you'd like to blame that on size, it was desire.  When it came down to it and he displayed that he wanted to, he could shut guys down much bigger than him (lol @ the Admiral).

Garnett - Offensively he doesn't belong in the same discussion as Mailman or Chuck, yet you cannot deny his defensive prowess (and it's not like he's bad offensively - he's actually really good - just not the same class).

McHale - Ever hear the expression, "He doesn't have Kevin McHale-like post moves" ??  Bad knees and sharing the court with a bunch of hall of famers keeps this guy from being further up the list.  At the same time, I think the 2nd part is part of why he's as high as he is.  The guy was a stud, though.

Dirk - He's much like chuck in that he's an offensive guru that isn't big on defense.  Unlike Chuck, he has a ring.  And unlike Chuck, he didn't make the hustle plays (what's a rebound?).  Also, unlike Chuck, he didn't play in the Magic/Bird era immediately followed by the Jordan era.  But I got to give the guy credit... amazing offensive player and this year he showed me something I always questioned.

Pettit - hard to compare this guy since the game has changed so much, but when he retired he was the all-time leading scorer and rebounder in the league (I think?).  He set the standard.

Rodman - He's not Bill Russell, but he fulfilled a similar need... and has five rings to prove it.  He's gotta be in the discussion for greatest rebounder of all-time... at 6-8 and skinny. 

There's other names to go here... fun discussion.

For the most part C's are PF's & PF's are C's but I've been sayin the same thing about Duncan his whole career. He was & is a C who can play PF.

Posted by sweg on 8/11/2011 4:45:00 PM (view original):

My only head scratching on the picks so far came with Hakeem going ahead of Kareem.  I'm not sure on what front Hakeem out does Kareem and when is Hakeem mentioned or thought of as a better cornerstone to a team than Bill Russell?  I'm not sure he belongs in the top 10.

Ur crazy, Dream was the best defensive player to ever play the post and he was unstoppable in the post. Kareem wouldn't have been able to defend Dream and Dream would've eaten Russell's lunch! Did you see Dream torch Robinson in the playoffs and dominate Shaq also? There's no way Russell could do what Dream did! Kareem was drafted 7th so why aren't you bashing the 2 picks before him? That's what you should be scratching your head about. The top 5 picks should've been Jordan, Wilt, Dream, Kareem, & Shaq but players like Bird and Magic went before 3 of them and you question Dream's ability to be a cornerstone player LMFAO.

I'm scratching my head about Stockton when another player who never should've slipped into the 2nd round is still available.

Personally I think it should be abbababa I think this would be the farest

In this "League", you're going to need a "true" Center to man-up against the best that ever played the game, and you're going to need that guy every single game.  This guy fills both those criteria, while also putting-up (at least) 23 - 12 - 3 and 2.5 blocks, and also shoots 60%.  Don't think he really gets the credit he deserves since his best days were in the ABA, so I'm sure some people won't like the pick, but 
                                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                       ARTIS GILMORE

has to be the pick here.  Can't see any other "competitive" Centers being available in 30 picks when I'm up again.