Posted by MikeT23 on 6/15/2017 2:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 6/15/2017 1:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mrslam34 on 6/15/2017 1:53:00 PM (view original):
I was a n00b in 2.0 and never assumed that the 2 a day worlds had a faster recruiting cycle. The thought actually never crossed my mind. I also don't think anything has changed with 3.0 that would make that assumption more likely.

Now that Mike mentioned it I can see where someone could make that assumption. But I don't think it's common sense or the most common assumption. I'd be curious to know how many current n00bs assume that though.

Exactly my point. Thank you.

Most people didn't think that in 2.0 so most people wouldn't think that in 3.0. It's not common sense. That was my point Mike.

Are you sure it's "most people"? Have you some hard data to provide? Because, as I see, ONE PERSON who didn't play 2.0(which is dead so I have no idea why you keep mentioning it) has said "I assumed recruiting was accelerated as well" and NO USERS who didn't play 2.0(which is dead so I have no idea why you keep mentioning it) have said "I never even considered an accelerated recruiting schedule."

I'm not a math wiz but it seems like 100% assumed accelerated recruiting schedule.

But, if you'd like, explain your theory on why Tark has the fewest amount of users in D3 and, I think, overall. Go ahead. The stage is yours.

LOL!!

Posted by shoe3 on 6/15/2017 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gomiami1972 on 6/15/2017 11:05:00 AM (view original):
67% of all potential HD revenue comes from DII and DIII...that's 660 out of a possible 984 teams. It really is a good idea for WIS to want people to park themselves permanently in the lower divisions.

You seem to assume an equal number of people are attracted to, and intend to stay at D2 and D3. That's just absurd. The vast majority of people who are going to be interested in a college basketball simulation are going to want to play D1. I don't know of any other similar game that has included lower divisions. The forced stratification into D2 and D3 makes some short term sense when a world opens, but attrition sets in and people move up or drop out. It makes some sense to have a lower division for new players, and people who just want to play at their little alma mater, or whatever; but it doesn't make any sense to incentivize parking in those divisions. If the game is healthy at D1, it's healthy. If it's not healthy at D1, it's in trouble. A game where the highest level is not attractive to people is never going to retain users - a truth that should be self-evident to anyone who had played the previous version of the game.

This will be my last post in this thread so, if you are compelled to have the last word, you will.

The vast majority of new users will (initially) want to join in hopes of ultimately playing at Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, etc. The problem comes when new players realize that they will NEVER coach Kentucky because the school is locked down by a veteran coach and there are 100 other veteran coaches with superior resumes to take the job if it ever does open. Those new players need to be given an entertaining alternative or they will quit. DII and DIII are not there simply to train new players. They are there so that anyone can create a dynasty outside of the bias (baseline prestige) and unavailability (job is rarely open) that characterizes the DI system.

Oooh, the last word shame! Come on.

As a game developer, I start with the premise that there should never be a situation where a player feels like s/he can NEVER get to the highest level. If you're depending on customers settling for less than what they intend to have paid for, that's poor design. I agree that if a player has a single team in mind, and if that single team is a high demand team, they're going to have to adjust expectations. But I'd argue that's not really what they expect. I want to coach Minnesota. Somehow, that team has been out of my reach for 4 real life years, with 2 usernames for the last 3. That's what I want, but it's not what I expect, and it's not what I need to keep playing. I just expect to be able to compete at that level.

So I agree that optimally, there will be places that a player can land apart from UK, KU, or Duke and still enjoy the game. The difference is I think game will be at optimal playability when those place are in the WCC, MEAC, MAC, Ivy League, and Big West, etc, and not *necessarily* in D2 or D3.

Posted by kcsundevil on 6/15/2017 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Individual mileage may vary, but overall it's pretty obvious WIS fixed the wrong problem by focusing on recruiting instead of the jobs process.

HD is still the best game of it's type, but man, 3.0 turned out to be a collosal missed opportunity.

They should have done both. My biggest criticism of the rollout was not fixing the jobs process - i.e. creating a faster and easier route to D1 for players who want to play D1. I love 3.0 scouting and recruiting, but not fixing the forced slow-stratification jobs process as well was a big mistake.

Posted by Benis on 6/15/2017 1:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mbriese on 6/15/2017 1:09:00 PM (view original):
I agree with shoe, but only to a certain extent. I don't think you can ignore D2/D3 numbers when looking at the state of the game, but seeing healthy D1 numbers gives more evidence to the fact that there's not as much of an issue with the game itself as there is with attracting new users. If people are willing to keep consistently signing up for additional seasons at the D1 level then the game isn't a complete trainwreck, and can't be blamed 100% for the status it's in right now. WIS just isn't promoting it at all. If you put a billboard up on a country road that only 5 people drive on and 2 of those people make a purchase based on what they saw, the problem isn't with the content on the billboard.

Its keeping the new people interested who try it out. A LOT of people signed up in the recent months but many did not stick around. We've all shared many ideas and theories for this but to me, that's the bottom line. It doesn't seem to retain new users and it seems to be worse in 3.0 than 2.0.

Are you sure that the difficulty the game is having with retaining customers is a WIS issue or is it just the nature of the product? I see those damn "Game of War" commercials a few times a week, and I've tried picking it up a few times before quickly realizing "this is too much work for me, I'm just not interested". They clearly have enough of a user base to keep going, though.

Let's say that average retention rate (percentage of users who purchase additional seasons after their first discounted season) is 7% - yes, if the promotion only fills the world with 100 people and only 7 stick around, that's going to seem like a failure. My point is that if the game was promoted a bit more using a few very simple mediums, these promotions should fill D3 in open worlds, and then continue to nurture user growth after the 93% (or whatever the actual percentage of users not retained is) drop off after the first season.

Also, Mike's "I assume this is how 2 a day worlds work" argument and the backpedaling that followed is a perfect example of why you shouldn't feed the troll. He didn't do the research before posting. Also, his posts are too long - who has time to read them?

What's your problem, clown? You mad because I wouldn't let your daddy play in my HBD world? There's no backpedaling. No, I didn't do the research but that was my point. New users aren't doing research either. They don't know what happened in 2.0 because, well, they're new users. So, when they put a toe in the water, they take the less complicated route. One a day worlds. So STFU.

Are you a new user Mike?

OK then

I was in November. Unless you think the game was the same in 2006. That said, in the 7 months since I rejoined, there was not one thing that led me to believe 2 a days didn't have accelerated recruiting.

OK then.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/15/2017 5:22:00 PM (view original):
What's your problem, clown? You mad because I wouldn't let your daddy play in my HBD world? There's no backpedaling. No, I didn't do the research but that was my point. New users aren't doing research either. They don't know what happened in 2.0 because, well, they're new users. So, when they put a toe in the water, they take the less complicated route. One a day worlds. So STFU.

You seem upset. I don't know of any interaction you've had with my "daddy" (?), but I can promise that neither of us get nearly as emotional about these games as you apparently do. Also, please recognize how ridiculous "this is how it works, and it shouldn't work this way - oh wait, it doesn't work that way? That's my point!" sounds.

"Also, please recognize how ridiculous "this is how it works, and it shouldn't work this way - oh wait, it doesn't work that way? That's my point!" sounds."

hahahaha

Honestly this is pretty common around here. People form opinions and state them as facts based upon information that is incorrect. It's pretty funny.

Please quote anything I backpedaled on in this thread.

I believe, in an accelerated world, that it's natural to think all events are accelerated. Not one person who didn't reference 2.0 has claimed anything differently. cbriese, FWIW, is who I think claimed to be your daddy. Or maybe it was the other way around. Doesn't really matter but, as best I can recall, that's the only interaction I've had with a "briese" family.

And, finally, if I got "upset", I'd spend a lot less time around here. Lots of stupid and stupid is annoying.

I not even sure you clowns know what "backpedal" means.

You make a statement, find out it's wrong, and run away from it. Pretty sure I've done the exact opposite.

"I believe, in an accelerated world, that it's natural to think all events are accelerated."

Good point. Remember all those threads about how people don't like 2 a day worlds because recruiting cycle are accelerated. It's a big issue.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/15/2017 6:09:00 PM (view original):
I not even sure you clowns know what "backpedal" means.

You make a statement, find out it's wrong, and run away from it. Pretty sure I've done the exact opposite.

Yeah we call that "digging your heels in". Also a good strat

Are you going to tell me why new users AREN'T joining Tark? I laid out a theory. You got one?