I agree, bds. That was I said in my last post, although more succinctly. I can't tell if you're trying to explain it to me, which is pointless given that I had already voiced that, or if you're airing your POV so all can get an idea of where you're coming from.
The thing I think you might be missing; nobody was criticizing your team-builds. Nobody besides you and maybe dh could know them. The people chiming in were talking about your draft picks, not how you pieced them together.
To put it in grade-testing like you did, think of the draft as a mid-semester exam, the built teams as the Final. 2 separate tests with 2 separate grades, but the mid-semester exam gives an idea of what the Final will be like.

Posted by ashamael on 8/26/2020 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Starters
efg def ast orb drb crb tov
56.1 76.2 83.9 42.5 105.6 148.1 16.3
55.1 70.6 72.5 38 103.3 141.3 15.0
54.4 70.4 71.2 36 96.8 132.8 14.7
53.7 74.2 61.7 43.2 99.6 142.8 13.7
52.6 84.4 61.2 38.2 99.4 137.6 12.9

Full Team based on projected minutes
eFG% Ast% Def Orb% Drb% crb Tov%
55.0 76.4 71.5 38.9 96.0 134.9 14.4
55.2 68.9 67.4 35.8 91.7 127.5 14.3
54.8 66.3 65.8 37.0 91.6 128.6 13.6
54.6 61.4 72.0 41.7 93.7 135.4 13.8
53.4 61.4 79.0 37.7 96.1 133.8 13.3

I'm sure the formatting is *** as it always is, so I apologize in advance.

holy **** that's bad. Sorry :( I don't understand why I can't c/p from google docs anymore, so notepad always does this.

I'm almost universally 10% - 20% improved in almost every area vs season one... except turnovers, which are slightly higher

FTFY because I can't look at your trashy formatting.

efg	def	ast	orb	drb	crb	tov
56.1	76.2	83.9	42.5	105.6	148.1	16.3
55.1	70.6	72.5	38	103.3	141.3	15
54.4	70.4	71.2	36	96.8	132.8	14.7
53.7	74.2	61.7	43.2	99.6	142.8	13.7
52.6	84.4	61.2	38.2	99.4	137.6	12.9
eFG%	Ast%	Def	Orb%	Drb%	crb	Tov%
55	76.4	71.5	38.9	96	134.9	14.4
55.2	68.9	67.4	35.8	91.7	127.5	14.3
54.8	66.3	65.8	37	91.6	128.6	13.6
54.6	61.4	72	41.7	93.7	135.4	13.8
53.4	61.4	79	37.7	96.1	133.8	13.3

Posted by jpevans31 on 8/26/2020 5:57:00 PM (view original):
I agree, bds. That was I said in my last post, although more succinctly. I can't tell if you're trying to explain it to me, which is pointless given that I had already voiced that, or if you're airing your POV so all can get an idea of where you're coming from.
The thing I think you might be missing; nobody was criticizing your team-builds. Nobody besides you and maybe dh could know them. The people chiming in were talking about your draft picks, not how you pieced them together.
To put it in grade-testing like you did, think of the draft as a mid-semester exam, the built teams as the Final. 2 separate tests with 2 separate grades, but the mid-semester exam gives an idea of what the Final will be like.

"So, if others can't verify the info it can't be used to dispel criticism"

This line made me think we disagreed, but I get what you're saying. All good

Posted by ashamael on 8/26/2020 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Starters
efg def ast orb drb crb tov
56.1 76.2 83.9 42.5 105.6 148.1 16.3
55.1 70.6 72.5 38 103.3 141.3 15.0
54.4 70.4 71.2 36 96.8 132.8 14.7
53.7 74.2 61.7 43.2 99.6 142.8 13.7
52.6 84.4 61.2 38.2 99.4 137.6 12.9

Full Team based on projected minutes
eFG% Ast% Def Orb% Drb% crb Tov%
55.0 76.4 71.5 38.9 96.0 134.9 14.4
55.2 68.9 67.4 35.8 91.7 127.5 14.3
54.8 66.3 65.8 37.0 91.6 128.6 13.6
54.6 61.4 72.0 41.7 93.7 135.4 13.8
53.4 61.4 79.0 37.7 96.1 133.8 13.3

I'm sure the formatting is *** as it always is, so I apologize in advance.

holy **** that's bad. Sorry :( I don't understand why I can't c/p from google docs anymore, so notepad always does this.

I'm almost universally 10% - 20% improved in almost every area vs season one... except turnovers, which are slightly higher

Ash, copy paste from google doc into word, then copy paste from word into the forums. It’s stupid, but that’s what works.

To be perfectly SAVAGE: the draft and team builds are the mid-term exams, and the season results are the Finals

The draft is the exam, the W-L% is the grade? idk, doesn't matter, right?

Posted by benhoidal on 8/26/2020 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 8/26/2020 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Starters
efg def ast orb drb crb tov
56.1 76.2 83.9 42.5 105.6 148.1 16.3
55.1 70.6 72.5 38 103.3 141.3 15.0
54.4 70.4 71.2 36 96.8 132.8 14.7
53.7 74.2 61.7 43.2 99.6 142.8 13.7
52.6 84.4 61.2 38.2 99.4 137.6 12.9

Full Team based on projected minutes
eFG% Ast% Def Orb% Drb% crb Tov%
55.0 76.4 71.5 38.9 96.0 134.9 14.4
55.2 68.9 67.4 35.8 91.7 127.5 14.3
54.8 66.3 65.8 37.0 91.6 128.6 13.6
54.6 61.4 72.0 41.7 93.7 135.4 13.8
53.4 61.4 79.0 37.7 96.1 133.8 13.3

I'm sure the formatting is *** as it always is, so I apologize in advance.

holy **** that's bad. Sorry :( I don't understand why I can't c/p from google docs anymore, so notepad always does this.

I'm almost universally 10% - 20% improved in almost every area vs season one... except turnovers, which are slightly higher

Ash, copy paste from google doc into word, then copy paste from word into the forums. It’s stupid, but that’s what works.

a valiant attempt goes now

efg def ast orb drb tov
55.74 76.2 83.9 42.5 105.6 17.3
54.14 70.6 72.5 38 103.3 15.7
54.08 70.4 71.2 36 96.8 15.3
53.34 74.2 61.7 43.2 99.6 14.0
52.5 84.4 61.2 38.2 99.4 12.9

Nope. I don't have word btw, so I tried wordpad. I use google docs partially because I don't have word.

Oh wait, looks like I do!

efg	def	ast	orb	drb	tov
55.74	76.2	83.9	42.5	105.6	17.3
54.14	70.6	72.5	38	103.3	15.7
54.08	70.4	71.2	36	96.8	15.3
53.34	74.2	61.7	43.2	99.6	14.0
52.5	84.4	61.2	38.2	99.4	12.9

Press F to pay respect.

One more 'gain

efg	def	ast	orb	drb	tov
55.74	76.2	83.9	42.5	105.6	17.3
54.14	70.6	72.5	38	103.3	15.7
54.08	70.4	71.2	36	96.8	15.3
53.34	74.2	61.7	43.2	99.6	14.0
52.5	84.4	61.2	38.2	99.4	12.9

REJOICE!

Advice freely given, with no intent on arguing finer points or calling anybody out about anything they may or may not have done in this draft; just something in general to think about next time you're in a draft league or you're wondering why you're stuck in the middle of the pack in one.

There is a common mistake I see people of varying skill levels make in most draft league situations: not capitalizing on your strengths. The idea of "since I got (insert name here), I'm covered on (insert stat here)." The classic example is Wilt & rebounds. "Since I got Wilt, I can get less boards elsewhere" is the wrong idea. The idea should instead be, "Since I got Wilt, I'll continue to build on this rebounding strength and hammer it home the rest of the way while getting the best I can in the other areas, too!" Insert Worm for Wilt. Or Moses. Or Lebron. Or Howard. Build on that strength, or see your team fall into the clog of mediocrity. Another example is when a Rodman or Moses team takes Dirk, or when a Lebron team skips out on picking another guard that has good dimes and/or taking a big with a rebounding deficiency. Taking Lebron first - always a good idea - and following it up with sub-par rebounding in three of the other four positions kills a major advantage Lebron gave you. You've literally just brought what was going to be a strength and made it a weakness. Again, you can replace Lebron with Wilt or Worm or Moses or Howard or any other name that is taken early in the draft to provide a rebounding edge. You wouldn't pick a 35% efg guy just because you had a 60% efg guy and a couple of 55% efg guys would you? Then don't take a 1% orb power forward because you took a 17% orb small forward. Not exactly the same principle, but really close to it.

While there are diminishing returns for some stats, for the most part, more is just always better. Usage is the obvious exception, as you never need to have more than 110% usage on the floor at any point. Assists are a weird exception, as more is usually better, but because of the way the assist boost works with the step function, getting a dude with 5% more assist isn't necessarily always superior (but it usually is from a pure flexibility standpoint). The higher the cap, the more true this becomes. Lower caps are more about finding the right balance per dollar, so you have to reign in your spending a bit more, while higher caps are more about getting the best of the best as much as possible. When it comes to uncapped? Set high floors and strive for them all because you can bet others are as well. My first go-round at the Savage, my baselines were incredibly low: 50% ast, 80% drb. I mistakenly thought having low turnovers & fouls would make up the difference, and well, it didn't. With no cap in play, the absolute minimum I was shooting for this time - in those two areas specifically - was 60% & 95%, and I was hoping for more. I was disappointed I couldn't get five 70%+ ast teams & five 100%+ drb teams with my draft (on top of the other things), but I got really close - decided one 80 & two 70s was better than 4 70s, but that was just a five-team strategy thing, trying to make three better teams instead of balancing it out completely between five - and shattered my original projections. I would have easily gotten my goals had I gotten Glove instead of Clyde (damn you, mikee), but it is what it is, man. It is what it is.

Again, this isn't directed at anyone specifically - not even you - but if you do feel like maybe you have fallen into this trap (I know that I have - super recently, in fact), try the different approach next time and see.

Great advice.

As always.

I learned so much reading your threads back in the day.

I shouldn't respond to that. I shouldn't write here, anymore. Nope. I'm out. See y'all at the starting line

Alright random thoughts from my draft:

Wilt is great. I thought I was going to stand pat and draft him...but I started doing some mock drafts and it was really hard to get to even 400 3PM without reaching for meh players in the 2nd-5th rounds.

Here’s my theory: take away 3PM (but keep the eFG%) and guys like Chauncey Billups, Mark Price, Ray Allen, etc just aren’t very...good. I mean they’re good but I don’t want to take them over the big men who’d be available at the same spot. In a capped league? They’re great! But in a capless league? I want to avoid those guys. If they didn’t have 3PM, you’d never look twice at them in the first couple rounds. Take away 3PM and Billups and Rondo look pretty similar, yet no one wants to draft Rondo in the top 50 picks.

So what did I want to do? Get a guy who would be great even without 3PM factored in (if eFG% was still the same) who happened to have a ton of 3s, that way I could punt 3s for the rest of the draft yet still roll out a team that you can’t pack the paint against. That was kind of my strategy with Harden too.

In a vacuum: Wilt > Curry. Most def. But then in the 2nd round I get to take Kemp over a guy like Billups, and to me: Curry and Kemp > Wilt and Billups. Then run this all the way down the line. Simmons. Noah. Outlaw. Reed. I had the freedom to just grab the best player.

It’s kind of what Pex was doing but instead of ignoring 3PM every round, I honed in on it heavy in the first so that I could punt after that but not have to worry about teams going -2/-3 on me.

That’s just my strategy. Kinoa won by drafting a couple of those guys, so I’m not saying there’s only one way to win. But that’s my way of winning.

In the Spirit of Ash's post I'll give my self-evaluation:

Team Names: Result of binge watching That 70's Show during the shut down - one of my favorite characters
Draft Strategy: Much like Season 1 - basically abandoned almost immediately.

1. Chuck - Plan going in was to target the Admiral. After his season one success I thought Chuck would be gone. Have never really used him - and just said what the heck.....prolly not best idea to abandon plan like that!! llol

2. Nash - Had planned to target the Glove to pair with Admiral at this point to go with a Defensive narrative (wish I had stuck with the plan - had planned to take him last year and passed to take Kidd. Both times Glove went next pick). Once I went with Chuck I figured I'd go Nash and go heavy EFG% as my strategy.

3. Mookie - Had wanted Buck Williams here - I think rest of my draft would have gone better had he fallen. I kind of panicked and looked for someone who could give me elite defense at both guard positions to protect Nash and give me Perimeter shooting to space for Chuck. Much to Ash's point the backcourt pairing nullified the advantage Chuck gives me on the glass and doesn't enhance the EFG% strategy. But does give me copious assists in the backcourt and the defense I desired. Also, loved his heavy minutes. Probably a bad pick in retrospect.

4. Mase - I liked that his positional versatility matches up well with Chuck so he can help protect him at that end of the floor. Like his Efficiency in most seasons and Ast% for position. Not greatest rebounder in most seasons which again works to Ash's point in that regard. But, like Mookie, I loved his minutes and the flexibility that would give me later.

5. Embiid - Ash obviously panned the pick as a reach and I'm sure it was. I tried to cover for my DReb issue with him and also liked the post Defense. But again, he doesn't build on the other strength I had created in EFG% and his usage probably hinders Chuck and Nash. Again probably a bad pick in retrospect. I had considered Cowens and Bogut here - probably should have gone Big Red. But as I stated earlier in thread Embiid is an intriguing player to me and I felt the minutes I had already accumulated allowed me to take a risk here. I was disappointed in the 60 Def rating for this season.

6. Bogut - Love his Def/Efficiency/DReb at this spot. Was glad he fell. His minutes almost match up perfectly with Embiid though very different usages - hoping doesn't become an issue.....

7. Otto - Wanted a decent rebounding guard to go with Nash and Mookie. His EFG% and 3pt shooting I thought was a perfect fit for Chuck and Nash as well. Defense is so-so but I was very happy to get him here. I think he was a good fit for our squad.

8. Roundfield - Probably should have gone with more glass here but overall I thought he is a great sub for the ROUND Mound of Rebound and Mason in his best seasons in terms of Usage, position flexibility, and defense. His paint scoring I also liked when Chuck leaves the game especially. I see him as a key on 2 teams and spot duty on a 3rd.

9. Murph - Will use his two +DReb Seasons - obviously a need - especially in the season Embiid doesn't have and the one with minimal minutes. Obviously his defense is an issue but that's not going to be our strength. He fits the EFG% model and spaces the floor for Chuck. Tried to pair him with Chuck/Mase best defensive seasons to help cover him there.

10. Batum - REALLY wanted to take Sabonis here to double down on glass/EFG% but ultimately was scared off by another inferior frontcourt defender. I needed DReb in my backcourt in Porter's weaker seasons and wanted at least a decent defender who could guard both positions to protect Nash - without sacrificing EFG%. I felt Batum fit the bill - I actually debated between he and Otto in the 7th so was glad he was available.

11. Diallo - Actually I loved this pick for my squad here. Limited minutes allowed for by the base of minutes I built early. Can play him at Small Forward with massive DReb which helps me there and his superior EFG% again fits my model with decent defense.

12. Benjamin - Probably a late reach but he has one season at 29% Dreb and decent defense that I could use at Center. Has one or two other seasons with solid EFG% and good defense with Ok rebounding that I can use in limited fashion at power forward.

Overall Thoughts: Ultimately wish I would've stuck to the original plan but what the heck - I think I had a better draft than I did first go round, but it sounds like just about everybody feels that way. Looking forward to see how it turns out.

Feel free to comment and tell me how sh***y the Fighting Red Formans are and I'll probably agree!!!

Posted by bds9992 on 8/26/2020 8:56:00 PM (view original):
I shouldn't respond to that. I shouldn't write here, anymore. Nope. I'm out. See y'all at the starting line

You're right. You shouldn't. There's nothing to respond to. It's not about you; it's about everyone. It's to make everyone ask questions of themselves to improve as an owner.