Quote: Originally Posted By dellhops69 on 1/29/2010but prestige affects recruiting zhawks.

Great observation!

I understand that but you can still recruit very well at a B+ level, you just have to understand how to do it.

I am not saying that it is perfect, as you have likely already read the thoughts that i had about changing the process. Baseline prestige is needed, I just think there are better ways to go about calculating it.

zhawks i agree with you...i would love to get to an A+ and stay there though lol

Recruiting at a B+ is pretty easy if you don't happen to overlap with too many A level schools. I got 4 top 100 recruits last season with a B at Wichita State, just because the sum total of A- and higher schools west of the mississppi and east of the rockies was 4: Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas and Iowa. That's it until you got to the Pac 10. There are a lot of good recruits in MN/IA/MO/AR/LA/TX/OK/KS/NE, and certainly enough that you can do pretty well with a B/B+.

dellhops - It depends on what you want. You can win the NC at any school. There are examples of that. That definitely isn't a mirage. So maybe I am a little harsh when I say it's not truely WhatIf.

Where I think the contention is coming into the conversation is whether you can successfully build a small program into a dynasty. Most coaches aren't going to try because of the built in bias so it's not that important to them.

but come tournament time you run up against those schools and they ending up kicking your butt because they have better players at every position which makes your run for a dynasty moot

lizak..i was under the impression that i could build a dynasty at a non bcs school lol...silly me but i'll be here in hd anyway

Quote: Originally Posted By dellhops69 on 1/29/2010but come tournament time you run up against those schools and they ending up kicking your butt because they have better players at every position which makes your run for a dynasty moot

Not if you understand how to recruit.

BCS schools do have some disadvantages as compared to the B/B+ level MVC/CUSA level schools.

I win 12-15 conference games every year, even in a down year because I have a weak conference. VERY few BCS teams can claim to do that because their down years correspond to other teams up years, the other coaches are smart and have A/B level prestige too. Most of my conf mates don't have B prestige.

Like it or not, right now, Wins = rankings and rankings + rpi = seeding.

So I can get a top 4 seed in the NT with a 23-4 record, and a more talented UNC team might struggle, lose to Duke twice, GT, Wake, etc and end up 19-10 and be a 7 seed.

Georgia Tech in Allen last year was a top 25 team based on talent but when to the PT A prestige because they lost a few tough ACC games. I never worry about a few rough losses dropping me in the PT.

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The overall total of the 12 teams Prestige in the Ivy-Allen is slightly higher than the 12 team total in the SEC-Allen.

SEC IVY
A- 1 1
B+ 1 0
B 1 2
B- 1 4
C+ 4 1
C 3 2
C- 1 2

This is one of the best forum topics that I have followed. It would really be helpful if someone from WIS (seble or rep) would chime in or acknowledge that they even know the debate is going on. Without any feedback all these rants are conjecture and wishes. I could send a SM but I think those are routed to Bombay.

I am hoping that seble will. I did make him aware of the topic, we shall see if he chooses to address it or not. I know he is very busy finishing up the new engine so we can begin testing.

I am just concerned that there should be more than one person running this.

Being at a Big 6 school is not all milk and cookies. I am at Missouri in Allen and it is a challenge every season. I have made it to the 2nd round of the NT twice in the past 4 seasons. After getting a bump from B- to B I got this email from my AD

Coach,

You're moving in the right direction - don't get me wrong, we're not content. Everyone involved with the program expects more - you've taken a good step getting us there, but you need to build on that next season.

Harold Griffie
Athletics Director

How's that for an encouraging pat on the back. Yeah my baseline prestige is a B but I have to scrap for every win I can get just to maintain it. Oh, by the way, that 2nd NT bid in 4 seasons finally got me out of In Jeopardy.

Quote: Originally Posted By dellhops69 on 1/29/2010but come tournament time you run up against those schools and they ending up kicking your butt because they have better players at every position which makes your run for a dynasty moot

No, that's not how it has to work, and often it doesn't.

This year in the NT, I beat UNC, UConn and Clemson with poor little Montana. Over the last three seasons, I've beaten teams from the Big Ten, Pac-10, Big East and four teams from the mighty ACC in the NT.

Take a look at all the non-BCS teams that have made the Final Four and even won the NT in Allen alone over the last few seasons. Cleveland State, Yale and Boston U have all won titles. This year, Montana and Tennessee State made the Final Four, as have High Point and several other low/mid schools.

The fact of the matter is that non-BCS teams have it much, much, much better in HD than they do in real life. (But I still think their prestige should be more flexible.)