Training Camp position players Topic

MikeT23
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Not to mention, if you really, really wanted a C/SS/CF, why not pick them in rounds 6-10? Would you rather have the non-slugging 1B with a poor RH split and bad eye? Or does that high stamina pitcher with no control strike your fancy?
9/30/2009 4:49 PM
toddcommish
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You can say "already addressed" all you want. But as the one calling for change, the burden of proof extends beyond simply "addressing".

Fact is, 25 rounds is fine for the draft.

- All undrafted players should immediately fall into the Tryout Camp Position players list for immediate signing at $8K.

- All unsigned draftees will go into the Minor League Free Agent pool beginning with the next season for $8K.

EVERYONE WINS. PROBLEM SOLVED. THREAD CLOSED.
9/30/2009 4:51 PM
iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 9/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009
Sounds like you two are more concerned about YOUR franchise and less about the world overall. That's fine but just say it.
I'd say quite the opposite... a few diligent owners will get all the SS & C FAs, while the average owner will get a good LF to play 2B.

Do you really think this benefits a world overall????




Minor league FA signing period. Already addressed.
I haven't seen why this improves the world.

Having a minor league FA pool on the level of the TC pitcher pool would be helpful, of course..... but why does the Amateur Draft need to be shortened in conjuction?

There's a disconnect here where you're tying a perfectly good idea that will help a world to something that just makes for another way for an owner to screw up their minor league system.

In short:

Training Camp-quality Position Players available = Good

Shortening the Draft to 10 rounds = Lacking in clear benefits

Why are you insisting that they be linked?
9/30/2009 4:52 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 9/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009
Sounds like you two are more concerned about YOUR franchise and less about the world overall. That's fine but just say it.
Why wouldn't an automatically generated TC PP pool (just like the automatically generated TC pitcher pool) solve the problem? Why does the TC PP pool need to be tied to a shortened draft?

That's the missing piece of your idea. An explanation as to WHY the two have to go together.




They don't. But, as discussed in another thread, no one should expect the TC PP to be anything more that good stamina 1B/LF who can't hit. If they are, the last 15 rounds of the draft are even more pointless.


For iain.
9/30/2009 4:53 PM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009Not to mention, if you really, really wanted a C/SS/CF, why not pick them in rounds 6-10? Would you rather have the non-slugging 1B with a poor RH split and bad eye? Or does that high stamina pitcher with no control strike your fancy
You know as well as all of us that Sparky occasionally picks 1B/DH/LF before picking any SS/2B/CF prospects. Your proposal would be "workable" if we had a live draft where we could literally PICK players rather than rely on Sparky interpreting our settings to fill a RL/LowA roster.
9/30/2009 4:54 PM
iain
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So you conceded 8 minutes ago that they don't.

Why did you think they needed to be in the first place?
9/30/2009 4:55 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By toddcommish on 9/30/2009
You can say "already addressed" all you want. But as the one calling for change, the burden of proof extends beyond simply "addressing".

Fact is, 25 rounds is fine for the draft.

- All undrafted players should immediately fall into the Tryout Camp Position players list for immediate signing at $8K.

- All unsigned draftees will go into the Minor League Free Agent pool beginning with the next season for $8K.

EVERYONE WINS. PROBLEM SOLVED. THREAD CLOSED.



I really don't have a problem with this alteration. I was just looking for some instant gratification. As I mentioned, I stopped signing pitchers after round 10 quite some time ago. I just sign TC turds. Once a TC PP is opened, I'm sure I'll stop doing the same with PP if they have any quality at all. And, if the whiners of WifS get their way, they will. There will be players who will be excellent(by COF standards) fielders who can't hit.
9/30/2009 4:57 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 9/30/2009
So you conceded 8 minutes ago that they don't.

Why did you think they needed to be in the first place?



Please read the thread. A TC PP pool, if they are of any quality, will make round 11-25 pointless. The current draft is not modeled after MLB so what's the difference if it's 10, 18, 25 or 31 rounds?
9/30/2009 4:58 PM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By toddcommish on 9/30/2009
You can say "already addressed" all you want. But as the one calling for change, the burden of proof extends beyond simply "addressing".

Fact is, 25 rounds is fine for the draft.

- All undrafted players should immediately fall into the Tryout Camp Position players list for immediate signing at $8K.

- All unsigned draftees will go into the Minor League Free Agent pool beginning with the next season for $8K.

EVERYONE WINS. PROBLEM SOLVED. THREAD CLOSED.

MikeT has conceded to this proposal. THREAD CLOSED.
9/30/2009 5:00 PM
iain
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The TC PP pool would be somewhere to go when SIMMY drafts 17 pitchers, or if you are unsatisfied with the distribution of positions you got in the draft.

I would still sign almost all my picks because it's easier, but if I'm missing a b/u MIF-type, you can fill a hole from the TC PP pool.

I'm still not sure why you're all hot and bothered about truncating the draft. If someone doesn't want to sign their picks, they won't sign them now, either.
9/30/2009 5:02 PM
MikeT23
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SIMMY doesn't draft 17 pitchers, you do.

Not if they are 1B/LF quality that can't hit, you won't.

And, if they don't, the players rot. With a shortened draft, someone desperate for a back-up catcher or defensive SS in LoA can sign the undrafted player.
9/30/2009 5:04 PM
tecwrg
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By tecwrg on 9/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009
Sounds like you two are more concerned about YOUR franchise and less about the world overall. That's fine but just say it.
Why wouldn't an automatically generated TC PP pool (just like the automatically generated TC pitcher pool) solve the problem? Why does the TC PP pool need to be tied to a shortened draft?

That's the missing piece of your idea. An explanation as to WHY the two have to go together.




They don't. But, as discussed in another thread, no one should expect the TC PP to be anything more that good stamina 1B/LF who can't hit. If they are, the last 15 rounds of the draft are even more pointless.
I don't see why that would need to be the case. I wouldn't see the harm of having guys who are at the lowest acceptable levels for each position, i.e. a SS with projected ratings of 70/72/72/72 or so. Hitting ratings in the teens or single digits at best.

I understand that a counter-argument to that might be that "guys like that could be put on a major league roster to be used as defensive replacements". Maybe for 3B/RF/LF/1B. While that could be true, I'd say that anybody who feels that a tryout camp position player is their best alternative for a bench guy on the major league roster really isn't trying very hard, and I don't see how that can be considered a threat. There are much better defensive/no bat guys currently available in the later rounds of the draft, and I don't see them flooding major league rosters.
9/30/2009 5:05 PM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 9/30/2009

So you conceded 8 minutes ago that they don't.

Why did you think they needed to be in the first place?




Please read the thread. A TC PP pool, if they are of any quality, will make round 11-25 pointless. The current draft is not modeled after MLB so what's the difference if it's 10, 18, 25 or 31 rounds?
Let's say that the draft is truncated to 10 rounds. 320 players are drafted. If I time my selections right, I can sign all of the players ranked 321-350 for $240,000, essentially stripping the draft of the useful players.

Normally those 30 extra potential-AA players would be distributed among 30 different teams.

You know this, because you and I were the ones who pillaged the very first tryout camp of all of the pitchers in one of the early seasons of Ruth. I remember seeing names disappear from the tryout camp pitcher list, and noticed that you and I took the top 30 pitchers, just because we happened to be online when the list was generated.

How is that good for a league?
9/30/2009 5:09 PM
MikeT23
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And, when you can get cheap defensive players, what will be the point in giving the 1B who can't really hit the position you drafted in round 15 an 80k bonus to advance all the way to HiA for you?

So, when people aren't signing picks 11-25 because they can get better minor league fodder in the neverending TC pool with no bonus money, what's the point of rounds 11-25 again?
9/30/2009 5:10 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By toddcommish on 9/30/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 9/30/2009

So you conceded 8 minutes ago that they don't.

Why did you think they needed to be in the first place?




Please read the thread. A TC PP pool, if they are of any quality, will make round 11-25 pointless. The current draft is not modeled after MLB so what's the difference if it's 10, 18, 25 or 31 rounds?
Let's say that the draft is truncated to 10 rounds. 320 players are drafted. If I time my selections right, I can sign all of the players ranked 321-350 for $240,000, essentially stripping the draft of the useful players.

Normally those 30 extra potential-AA players would be distributed among 30 different teams.

You know this, because you and I were the ones who pillaged the very first tryout camp of all of the pitchers in one of the early seasons of Ruth. I remember seeing names disappear from the tryout camp pitcher list, and noticed that you and I took the top 30 pitchers, just because we happened to be online when the list was generated.

How is that good for a league?



A) It was Joey Belle
B) Minor league FA signing period. Already addressed.
9/30/2009 5:11 PM
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