I mean, the guy has faced institutional sanctions at his last two jobs - why would Kentucky be any different? And the point isn't whether Calipari would actually receive benefits from what happened with Marcus Camby back in 1996; the point is that an agent was allowed to pay a "student" athlete under Coach Calipari's charge.

I was down in New Orleans for the games, and I got an interesting reaction when I shouted "Vacate the Wins Now Coach Cal!"

chuckles from non UK fans in my vicinity, glares from some UK fans and head nods from a couple of folks in blue

Quote: Originally Posted By jslotman on 3/23/2010 And the point isn't whether Calipari would actually receive benefits from what happened with Marcus Camby back in 1996; the point is that an agent was allowed to pay a "student" athlete under Coach Calipari's charge.

If a player really wants to accept money, there's no 100% way to prevent it. For instance, the money could've been given to Camby's parents or a relative. The agent may have never stepped on campus.

There are violations that a coach can, and should, be aware of. But accepting money from an agent isn't one of them

Seriously, a coach shouldn't be held responsible for knowing whether or not one of his players is being paid? I can't believe that.

I think al's point is a very fair one.

Doesn't change the fact that Calipari is incredibly shady; it's simply a question of whether or not he gets caught.

What should a coach be responsible for if he's not responsible for making sure his players aren't doing something to make them NCAA ineligible? Should a coach be responsible, for instance, if his players head to a Pittsburgh strip club, pick up an out of work flight attendant, promise to pay her for her services, then catch her on video asking them for money before she goes to the police with a rape story the next day?

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 3/23/2010
I think al's point is a very fair one.

Doesn't change the fact that Calipari is incredibly shady; it's simply a question of whether or not he gets caught.

I dont know where I stand on this. The two things his programs have been in trouble for I personally believe are out of his control (Agent paying player, highschool kid cheating on test). Everyone like to make comments like the one above yet no one ever offers any proof of anything he's done. To compare him to Sampson or anyone else who has personally been caught violating rules is insane as his programs have never been in trouble for anything he's done.

We live in a society where everyone wants to shout innocent until proven guilty and yet its typically a double standard. I hate UK and would love for them to lose but at the same time I gotta give the people running that program a little credit in that as much as they want to win Im sure they didnt simply hand him that contract without a bit of research of their own. Its not as simple as some of you like to make it.

mmt I get where you are coming from and you make solid points. The fact is you are right and the others are right. If you want to make sure that things like the Rose situation don't happen, there are ways to do it. I know Bruce Weber (much to the dismay of many fans) refused to offer a 'ship to a player in the past that wouldn't release his transcrpits and what not until after he was offered. Different senerio, of course, a possible way to screen for things like that? Sure. Would it be effective every time? Who knows.

The other thing is (and stop me if I am wrong) I was under the impression that the school knew halfway through the year what was up and still Cal continued to play Rose. If that is the case then you can't really argue that he was right in anyway. He used a player that was ineligable, that is against the rules.

And per Camby, yes sometimes you can't stop players from taking money but you can stop yourself from recruiting those players that are going to take the money.

Quote: Originally Posted By diablo11 on 3/18/2010
Vandy and ND are both going to lose? You two are crazy. ND is extremely hot right now and played in the best conference. They will roll.

heh

Speaking of red flags... when you recruit players, you get red flags all the time. The question is whether or not you pay any attention to them. I don't know anything about Cal but I'm certain that school's that want to run a clean program can do so if they want to. On the other hand... if you want to press the envelope you can do that to. The coaches know what's going on though.

mmt, I totally agree with you. I didn't mean to come off as ignorant. There is a very big difference, imo of knowing about something and 'letting it slide' (ie Calipari knowing Rose was ineligable but continuing to play him) versus what kids do in their personal lives unrealated to basketball. That was what I was getting at.

Ok I read the University of Memphis Public Infractions report issued by the NCAA on August 20, 2009. There are three different things here. 1) Is the point raised by Zhawks re: school knowing half way through the year "what was up" this actually related to high school grades; 2) SAT score related to Rose; 3) Travel provided to Rose's older brother.

Its states that in May of 2008 Memphis received information from ETS indication that the SAT score for one of their students was invalidated. (More on this later as it was the basis for the vacating of wins);

The report also indicates that prior to the season Rose played Memphis became aware that 4 student athlete's from Rose's former high school may have had grades changed before the season. Memphis conducted an investigation and as there was no evidence (apparently there was no way to prove the grades were changes). As such, Memphis cleared him to play. The NCAA never took any action regarding the grade changes and nothing ever came from it.

As stated above a seperate issue was the matter of the SAT score. The NCAA vacated the wins and FF appearance under a "strict liability" policy. Although they couldnt prove the school had prior knowledge and despite the score not being invalidated until AFTER the season (which means he was eligible at the time) the NCAA decided to use SL and find him academically ineligible during the 07-08 season.

They also found that regardless of the SAT scores, Memphis improperly provided transportation and loging to Roses brother.

Interestingly enough the NCAA found this to be the 7th violation in the schools history and is coincided with major violations by the womens golf team specifically their head coach. The first three violations which actually account for 9 pages of the opinion focus on golf. The 4th was the impermissible travel and it was found that Memphis illegally spent $3,300.00.

The other violation was playing an ineligible athelte to which the NCAA told Memphis is did not matter that they learned after the fact that he was ineligible. Keep in mind the nowhere in the report was evidence presented that Memphis knew while he was playing nor did the NCAA punish them for same.

A third violation against the basketball team was failuer to monitor (this was with regards to travel).

They got his with impermissible recruiting related to one phone call to an athletes mother in 2008. This was a secondary violation and not tied to JC. And that was it.

I dont see anything so shady or corrupt or any of that other stuff which would endear him to the criticisms he receives and Ill say again. An athlete taking money (Camby) from a non school rep and another doing whatever it took to get into school as to not cost himself millions 1 year later in the NBA (Rose) cannot fall on the coach. Sure is the 3.3k in travel stuff against the rules, of course, but making him out to be a criminal based on the above is silly. Look what other schools that have been caught have been hit with.

In both instances the wins and FF were vacated simply because they were won with players that after the fact were deemed ineligible not because of the atrociousness of the violations.

Mmt do you have a resource telling you when the SAT score was invalidated. I have never seen that shown and was always under the impression it was not after the season, I could be wrong tho.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2009-06-05-2993641761_x.htm

Rose also wasn't the only player under Coach Cal to have problems with his SAT score.