Posted by namshub on 2/3/2011 7:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 2/2/2011 12:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hitman1979 on 2/2/2011 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 2/2/2011 12:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by namshub on 2/2/2011 12:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by hitman1979 on 2/2/2011 12:00:00 PM (view original):
Lots of squeaky wheels getting greased.

+1

Yeah we all know you hate anything that has to do with progress

Thanks for the totally baseless quip, progress is welcome, but we've seen implementation from WIS before.  I hope it is progress, but I expect many problems, all of which will be complained about loudly on these very forums in the next few days.

Hit - I was aiming at namshub who seems to always take the stance that the game is fine as is and never needs any changes. Didn't mean to hit you in the cross fire.

Actually, i'm more from the school of "there are alot of complainers in this game who complain about changes being made and then when changes are made they complain about the changes that weren't made or they complain about the need for more changes or they complain about the changes that were made but done improperly, etc., etc."  That would be my actual stance mully. 

Sort of interesting that most of the items that a school of people seem to point out as flawed ... after a period of time, Admin/seble acknowledges that there is indeed an issue, and a fix is put in.

Funny how that happens, huh?

great point girt.

also, every time i concede something to my girlfriend, it's because she's right.

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/3/2011 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by reinsel on 2/3/2011 12:59:00 PM (view original):
So I actually decided to do this based on C/PF in Allen.

Positions          Ave of Total
#1-#5                   775
#9-11                   715
#24-26                 614 +35  = 649
#48-50                 581 +30  = 611
#74-76                 564 +25  = 589
#98-100               555 +20  = 575
#124-126            533 +15  = 548
#149-151            525 +10  = 535
#174-176            516 +5    = 521
#198-200            508

So I was kinda close.  And my thesis of more diffeence from top (775) to #25 (614) vs. #25 to #200 is correct. 

Considering D2 schools are starting these #125-200 guys while D1 teams put the #75 guys on the bench, its not surprising D2 teams look like D1 mid majors.


Want needs to be done is something like I outline above helping the #25-#175 guys and creating a system were the #50 guys don't get confused with the #150 guys.

i like it, i could definitely get behind a change like that. i would probably do it a bit differently, but very similar in concept, so that d2 recruits didn't really get better, and to flatten d1 a bit  -

Positions          Ave of Total
#1-#5                   775
#9-11                   715
#24-26                 614 +50  = 664
#48-50                 581 +35  = 621
#74-76                 564 +25  = 589
#98-100               555 + 10  = 565
#124-126            533 +5  = 538
#149-151            525
#174-176            516
#198-200            508

The BIG problem "in my opinion" is the area I've highlighted in RED. That's the group that is messed up. I would add 50 to each of those catergories so that the 6 Big Conferences in D1 and the Mid-Majors were battling over them instead of the Mid-Majors just completly giving up on them and going for the guys between 75 & 125, which in turn forces the SIM D/D- prestige teams to go for the 125 to 200 rated guys. That's been my problem in D11 the last couple of seasons. I'm battling Mid-Majors & SIM D/D- teams for the 125 to 200 guys because the Overall Ratings of those guys are between 500 & 535. I should be battling the Elite D11 coaches for them. Like I said in my earlier post, the average Overall Rating of D11 recruits is currently 440 to 540 (it use to be 450 to 550) and in my example if you add 50 to the guys I've highlighted in RED, it pulls them out of the D11 range and starts them at 600 and above, like I used in my earlier example. The 125 to 150 rated guys I would add 25. This way the Mid-Majors could be going for the 50 to 150 Rated Players, and than add 10 to the 175 range so the only battle us D11 guys have is the occasional SIM D/D- scholl going for the 175 to 200 guys.

Positions          Ave of Total
#1-#5                   775
#9-11                   715
#24-26                 614 +50  = 664 +0 = 664 
#48-50                 581 +35  = 621 +15 = 636
#74-76                 564 +25  = 589 +25 = 614 
#98-100               555 +10  = 565 +40 = 605
#124-126            533 +5  = 538 +20 = 558
#149-151            525 +25 = 550
#174-176            516 +10 = 526
#198-200            508

Posted by pinkeye on 2/3/2011 10:46:00 PM (view original):
great point girt.

also, every time i concede something to my girlfriend, it's because she's right.

Well, no. Don't be silly. We both know it's because you have a debilitating fear of being alone.

I understand where you're attempting to go there, but it's not analagous. It's not a one-on-one situation.There's thousands of users on this site. No significant changes are made because of a handful of people. You need to be honest about the changes that have been affected that are now pretty universally considered to be positive and the right move.

When potential/FSS went into play, we said, "Whoa, improvement is going way to fast and guys are improving too much, this isn't right". We were told that it was working as intended. Months later, it was fixed. It was obviously the right move. When the new recruits generation took hold, we said, "Whoa, this is going to throttle low/mid DI teams". It did (just look at the #'s of human coached DI teams), and months later, they're again attempting to fix it. Tons of examples likes that. (In fact, I'd love for you to name one or two fixes that were pushed for by that crowd and done but have hurt rather than helped.)

Posted by courtmagic on 2/4/2011 1:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/3/2011 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by reinsel on 2/3/2011 12:59:00 PM (view original):
So I actually decided to do this based on C/PF in Allen.

Positions          Ave of Total
#1-#5                   775
#9-11                   715
#24-26                 614 +35  = 649
#48-50                 581 +30  = 611
#74-76                 564 +25  = 589
#98-100               555 +20  = 575
#124-126            533 +15  = 548
#149-151            525 +10  = 535
#174-176            516 +5    = 521
#198-200            508

So I was kinda close.  And my thesis of more diffeence from top (775) to #25 (614) vs. #25 to #200 is correct. 

Considering D2 schools are starting these #125-200 guys while D1 teams put the #75 guys on the bench, its not surprising D2 teams look like D1 mid majors.


Want needs to be done is something like I outline above helping the #25-#175 guys and creating a system were the #50 guys don't get confused with the #150 guys.

i like it, i could definitely get behind a change like that. i would probably do it a bit differently, but very similar in concept, so that d2 recruits didn't really get better, and to flatten d1 a bit  -

Positions          Ave of Total
#1-#5                   775
#9-11                   715
#24-26                 614 +50  = 664
#48-50                 581 +35  = 621
#74-76                 564 +25  = 589
#98-100               555 + 10  = 565
#124-126            533 +5  = 538
#149-151            525
#174-176            516
#198-200            508

The BIG problem "in my opinion" is the area I've highlighted in RED. That's the group that is messed up. I would add 50 to each of those catergories so that the 6 Big Conferences in D1 and the Mid-Majors were battling over them instead of the Mid-Majors just completly giving up on them and going for the guys between 75 & 125, which in turn forces the SIM D/D- prestige teams to go for the 125 to 200 rated guys. That's been my problem in D11 the last couple of seasons. I'm battling Mid-Majors & SIM D/D- teams for the 125 to 200 guys because the Overall Ratings of those guys are between 500 & 535. I should be battling the Elite D11 coaches for them. Like I said in my earlier post, the average Overall Rating of D11 recruits is currently 440 to 540 (it use to be 450 to 550) and in my example if you add 50 to the guys I've highlighted in RED, it pulls them out of the D11 range and starts them at 600 and above, like I used in my earlier example. The 125 to 150 rated guys I would add 25. This way the Mid-Majors could be going for the 50 to 150 Rated Players, and than add 10 to the 175 range so the only battle us D11 guys have is the occasional SIM D/D- scholl going for the 175 to 200 guys.

Positions          Ave of Total
#1-#5                   775
#9-11                   715
#24-26                 614 +50  = 664 +0 = 664 
#48-50                 581 +35  = 621 +15 = 636
#74-76                 564 +25  = 589 +25 = 614 
#98-100               555 +10  = 565 +40 = 605
#124-126            533 +5  = 538 +20 = 558
#149-151            525 +25 = 550
#174-176            516 +10 = 526
#198-200            508

Don't know if I agree with the #'s exactly, but this is more-or-less what I'd recommend, too.

But here's the key with the increases that are taking place: Is it just starting ratings that have been improved, with the end ratings, the same? If so, I think it's actually a change for the worse, as the players will be the same as jrs/srs, and we won't get to enjoy the improvement. No one likes to see their players stagnate.

Posted by girt25 on 2/4/2011 6:19:00 AM (view original):

Posted by courtmagic on 2/4/2011 1:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by coach_billyg on 2/3/2011 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by reinsel on 2/3/2011 12:59:00 PM (view original):
So I actually decided to do this based on C/PF in Allen.

Positions          Ave of Total
#1-#5                   775
#9-11                   715
#24-26                 614 +35  = 649
#48-50                 581 +30  = 611
#74-76                 564 +25  = 589
#98-100               555 +20  = 575
#124-126            533 +15  = 548
#149-151            525 +10  = 535
#174-176            516 +5    = 521
#198-200            508

So I was kinda close.  And my thesis of more diffeence from top (775) to #25 (614) vs. #25 to #200 is correct. 

Considering D2 schools are starting these #125-200 guys while D1 teams put the #75 guys on the bench, its not surprising D2 teams look like D1 mid majors.


Want needs to be done is something like I outline above helping the #25-#175 guys and creating a system were the #50 guys don't get confused with the #150 guys.

i like it, i could definitely get behind a change like that. i would probably do it a bit differently, but very similar in concept, so that d2 recruits didn't really get better, and to flatten d1 a bit  -

Positions          Ave of Total
#1-#5                   775
#9-11                   715
#24-26                 614 +50  = 664
#48-50                 581 +35  = 621
#74-76                 564 +25  = 589
#98-100               555 + 10  = 565
#124-126            533 +5  = 538
#149-151            525
#174-176            516
#198-200            508

The BIG problem "in my opinion" is the area I've highlighted in RED. That's the group that is messed up. I would add 50 to each of those catergories so that the 6 Big Conferences in D1 and the Mid-Majors were battling over them instead of the Mid-Majors just completly giving up on them and going for the guys between 75 & 125, which in turn forces the SIM D/D- prestige teams to go for the 125 to 200 rated guys. That's been my problem in D11 the last couple of seasons. I'm battling Mid-Majors & SIM D/D- teams for the 125 to 200 guys because the Overall Ratings of those guys are between 500 & 535. I should be battling the Elite D11 coaches for them. Like I said in my earlier post, the average Overall Rating of D11 recruits is currently 440 to 540 (it use to be 450 to 550) and in my example if you add 50 to the guys I've highlighted in RED, it pulls them out of the D11 range and starts them at 600 and above, like I used in my earlier example. The 125 to 150 rated guys I would add 25. This way the Mid-Majors could be going for the 50 to 150 Rated Players, and than add 10 to the 175 range so the only battle us D11 guys have is the occasional SIM D/D- scholl going for the 175 to 200 guys.

Positions          Ave of Total
#1-#5                   775
#9-11                   715
#24-26                 614 +50  = 664 +0 = 664 
#48-50                 581 +35  = 621 +15 = 636
#74-76                 564 +25  = 589 +25 = 614 
#98-100               555 +10  = 565 +40 = 605
#124-126            533 +5  = 538 +20 = 558
#149-151            525 +25 = 550
#174-176            516 +10 = 526
#198-200            508

Don't know if I agree with the #'s exactly, but this is more-or-less what I'd recommend, too.

But here's the key with the increases that are taking place: Is it just starting ratings that have been improved, with the end ratings, the same? If so, I think it's actually a change for the worse, as the players will be the same as jrs/srs, and we won't get to enjoy the improvement. No one likes to see their players stagnate.

I wasn't able to be at the chat yesterday because some of us have to work 2nd shift, but I'll take your word, and the word of the other numerous coaching guru's who have been around for a lot longer than me, and say that if there is also a problem with the cap. My solution than, just use my formula at BOTH ENDS OF THE RATINGS. Adjust the starts and adjust the caps. Problem solved wether it's my formula or someone elses formula. Than we can get onto any of the other issues (which I haven't had a chance to look at yet). The only 2 that stood out to me were...
 
1. "Reducing the FT% of incoming recruits" - I kind of liked where it was at, thought it was fine and working well where it was, and would fight to leave it where it was.
&
2. "Assists raised significantly" - I'm all for this one. I don't know about D1, but with my D11 team, I have a great passing team overall (it was a lot better last season with 2 SGs with an 80 Passing Rating), and I'm constantly at the bottom of my conference in assists.

seble, I don't know if you are monitoring this, a question about your answers (esp #5):

Why would an across (I think you said all players were effected at least?) the board change, have a dramatic effect on the 24-26th ranked  players, and near none of the 174-176th ranked?

A followup, specific to the 24th thru 26th, do you anticipate the ending value the jr or sr season to also be substantial, or was the 'max values unchanged' comment meant to imply the 24th thru 26th players will be identical as seniors, and only will be 40 or 50 or 60 points higher as frosh??????

If seble does not answer, does anyone else know, does my ? even make sense, or am I missing something?????

They missed the biggest problem IMO, but they did get FG%, which is good.

The glaring omissions is still lack of high rebounding guards/high speed bigs in recruiting. 

They also need to increase blocks significantly, guys with 80ATH + 90+ BLK should be averaging 3+ blocks per game.

Overall I like the changes though from what I can see.

Posted by oldresorter on 2/4/2011 9:49:00 AM (view original):
seble, I don't know if you are monitoring this, a question about your answers (esp #5):

Why would an across (I think you said all players were effected at least?) the board change, have a dramatic effect on the 24-26th ranked  players, and near none of the 174-176th ranked?

A followup, specific to the 24th thru 26th, do you anticipate the ending value the jr or sr season to also be substantial, or was the 'max values unchanged' comment meant to imply the 24th thru 26th players will be identical as seniors, and only will be 40 or 50 or 60 points higher as frosh??????

If seble does not answer, does anyone else know, does my ? even make sense, or am I missing something?????

Just taking a gander but. . .


I should have provided more information about this change yesterday. Basically what I've done is bump up the averages for most individual ratings (which in turn raises the overall), while also lowering the standard deviation. The end result will be to close the gap between the average player and the extremes (both high and low). This should help address the concerns about a steep dropoff from the very elite players to the next level of DI recruits.

Is what would effect the part you are talking about, not the across the board raising.  Altering the standard deviation woud;l have the most effect on the outliers: IE the very top and the very bottom, so would bring the top closer to the middle.  WHich would, since the recruits are generated as one large pool, I would think mainly effect the top ranked portion of division one, and the bottom feeders of division three and leave division two largely alone.