Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 3:38:00 PM (view original):
Hey guys, instead of fielding a bunch of support tickets, I'll post to address the situation. We were alerted to the fact that Sportsbulls signed 5 recruits who were below the appropriate level of the team just before leaving it. In this case, the recruits were scouted only to level 1, and were recruited/signed in one day, the final day of recruiting period 1. The quality of the players is arguable, but these facts lead me to believe it was done intentionally to take those scholarship openings away from the next coach. I don't see a valid reason for a very successful coach, who is normally signing DI/DII level recruits, to sign these players on the way out the door. Behavior that unfairly impedes another coach is prohibited.

Here are some other key points:

1. It doesn't matter who reported this. When I get a report, I investigate the situation objectively and take any appropriate actions. If someone wants to report something by ab90, by all means do that, but it's irrelevant to this discussion.

2. There was no punishment handed out here to Sportsbulls, just a warning to avoid this type of behavior.

3. The admission by Sportsbulls of effectively locking down recruits at one school before signing them at another school was not a factor in my response. It's certainly pushing up against the idea of fair play, but it is not relevant to this situation.

4. Every situation is different, but if I find that another coach does this (clearly signing players just to fill scholarships on the way out), I would react the exact same way.

5. There are only so many protections we can build into the game, so we rely on the community for some level of honor in how they play the game. These types of things really bug me, because there's really no reason for it. I wish everyone could just play the game fairly and have fun. Is it really that rewarding to bend the rules as far as possible?

I’ve got a question.

In Tark it was obvious that ab90 was in violation of the FairPlay guidelines on distance. He had a team in D2 and a team in D3 and I think the distance was around 880 miles apart. I brought this to your attention and nothing was done about it.

Why was that?

The season hadn’t started when I brought it up to you either.

Posted by beachhouse on 8/24/2020 3:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 3:38:00 PM (view original):
Hey guys, instead of fielding a bunch of support tickets, I'll post to address the situation. We were alerted to the fact that Sportsbulls signed 5 recruits who were below the appropriate level of the team just before leaving it. In this case, the recruits were scouted only to level 1, and were recruited/signed in one day, the final day of recruiting period 1. The quality of the players is arguable, but these facts lead me to believe it was done intentionally to take those scholarship openings away from the next coach. I don't see a valid reason for a very successful coach, who is normally signing DI/DII level recruits, to sign these players on the way out the door. Behavior that unfairly impedes another coach is prohibited.

Here are some other key points:

1. It doesn't matter who reported this. When I get a report, I investigate the situation objectively and take any appropriate actions. If someone wants to report something by ab90, by all means do that, but it's irrelevant to this discussion.

2. There was no punishment handed out here to Sportsbulls, just a warning to avoid this type of behavior.

3. The admission by Sportsbulls of effectively locking down recruits at one school before signing them at another school was not a factor in my response. It's certainly pushing up against the idea of fair play, but it is not relevant to this situation.

4. Every situation is different, but if I find that another coach does this (clearly signing players just to fill scholarships on the way out), I would react the exact same way.

5. There are only so many protections we can build into the game, so we rely on the community for some level of honor in how they play the game. These types of things really bug me, because there's really no reason for it. I wish everyone could just play the game fairly and have fun. Is it really that rewarding to bend the rules as far as possible?

I’ve got a question.

In Tark it was obvious that ab90 was in violation of the FairPlay guidelines on distance. He had a team in D2 and a team in D3 and I think the distance was around 880 miles apart. I brought this to your attention and nothing was done about it.

Why was that?

The season hadn’t started when I brought it up to you either.

FWIW ab90 ended up not coaching that D2 team (I’m in that conference in Tark). No idea if Seble removed him or AB himself just left the team but there’s a new coach there now.

nothing was done until a forum post was made though.

Those recruits being on the squad, is probably the only chance new coaches have at getting a school like that... It gives them a chance to learn, and grow... Who cares if they wouldn't win a championship for the next coach.

Gotta be apart of the boys club to get things on this site, apparently....

GG boys.

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 3:38:00 PM (view original):
Hey guys, instead of fielding a bunch of support tickets, I'll post to address the situation. We were alerted to the fact that Sportsbulls signed 5 recruits who were below the appropriate level of the team just before leaving it. In this case, the recruits were scouted only to level 1, and were recruited/signed in one day, the final day of recruiting period 1. The quality of the players is arguable, but these facts lead me to believe it was done intentionally to take those scholarship openings away from the next coach. I don't see a valid reason for a very successful coach, who is normally signing DI/DII level recruits, to sign these players on the way out the door. Behavior that unfairly impedes another coach is prohibited.

Here are some other key points:

1. It doesn't matter who reported this. When I get a report, I investigate the situation objectively and take any appropriate actions. If someone wants to report something by ab90, by all means do that, but it's irrelevant to this discussion.

2. There was no punishment handed out here to Sportsbulls, just a warning to avoid this type of behavior.

3. The admission by Sportsbulls of effectively locking down recruits at one school before signing them at another school was not a factor in my response. It's certainly pushing up against the idea of fair play, but it is not relevant to this situation.

4. Every situation is different, but if I find that another coach does this (clearly signing players just to fill scholarships on the way out), I would react the exact same way.

5. There are only so many protections we can build into the game, so we rely on the community for some level of honor in how they play the game. These types of things really bug me, because there's really no reason for it. I wish everyone could just play the game fairly and have fun. Is it really that rewarding to bend the rules as far as possible?

Fix loyalty and reputation. And this thread would've been one page.

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 3:38:00 PM (view original):
Hey guys, instead of fielding a bunch of support tickets, I'll post to address the situation. We were alerted to the fact that Sportsbulls signed 5 recruits who were below the appropriate level of the team just before leaving it. In this case, the recruits were scouted only to level 1, and were recruited/signed in one day, the final day of recruiting period 1. The quality of the players is arguable, but these facts lead me to believe it was done intentionally to take those scholarship openings away from the next coach. I don't see a valid reason for a very successful coach, who is normally signing DI/DII level recruits, to sign these players on the way out the door. Behavior that unfairly impedes another coach is prohibited.

Here are some other key points:

1. It doesn't matter who reported this. When I get a report, I investigate the situation objectively and take any appropriate actions. If someone wants to report something by ab90, by all means do that, but it's irrelevant to this discussion.

2. There was no punishment handed out here to Sportsbulls, just a warning to avoid this type of behavior.

3. The admission by Sportsbulls of effectively locking down recruits at one school before signing them at another school was not a factor in my response. It's certainly pushing up against the idea of fair play, but it is not relevant to this situation.

4. Every situation is different, but if I find that another coach does this (clearly signing players just to fill scholarships on the way out), I would react the exact same way.

5. There are only so many protections we can build into the game, so we rely on the community for some level of honor in how they play the game. These types of things really bug me, because there's really no reason for it. I wish everyone could just play the game fairly and have fun. Is it really that rewarding to bend the rules as far as possible?

A lot to unpack here... I'm going to number it.

1. I find it so ironic that the site owner needs to make every post of his an automatic 5-star, just thought this was funny.

2. "I don't see a valid reason for a very successful coach, who is normally signing DI/DII level recruits, to sign these players on the way out the door." What about when ab, a formerly great coach with many titles that were self made, ruins dynasty after dynasty?

3. "Behavior that unfairly impedes another coach is prohibited." The fact that this is seen as directly impacting ab negatively is almost funny to me. How seble is fine with ab bouncing around and taking great teams from potential deserving coaches. This should not be seen as an action directly trying to hurt ab. I can go into further explanation of this if people want.

4. Most importantly, this: " I wish everyone could just play the game fairly and have fun. Is it really that rewarding to bend the rules as far as possible?" If everyone played the game how it was "supposed to be played" there would be no strategies, no fun, no anything. What I did was not a glitch in the system, it was clearly something that was considered during beta, and chosen to be put in the game. Again, is signing someone with promises with the intention of him transfering bending the rules? Yes. Is cutting everyone knowing you're going to go 1-25 bending the rules? Yes. Is ab's strategy bending the rules? Probably. But all of this stuff is people trying to find a fair advantage by not striving to be average and playing the game normally.

There's a difference between taking advantage of a glitch and finding fair ways to give yourself a competitive advantage. As some people set goals of experimenting with the wrong O/D or recruiting only D2 at D1, some people see winning and alternative strategy as fun.

I guess put me in the camp of "who cares". He built the program (or at least maintained it for several seasons), if he wants to sign scrub players then so be it. I don't see why 'fair play' means you need to set up the next coach for instant championship success. And it's not like he's hopping from team to team destroying or blowing up squads that others have built just for giggles.

Do we want every coach to do this? Would that be good for the game? No, of course not.

But do we want every coach to play the game like ab does and hop around from job to job. Leaving it behind without recruiting or scheduling? No, of course not. But that's not against the rules and it's his choice.

I don't see where fairplay guidelines are violated. At worst it's a dick move and that's it. Only person who is harmed is someone who just wants to take over a team and rides it to free credits.

Also -- Please take note...

No one is allowed to recruit D3 players at D3... You're unable to compete, and there is absolutely no way to be a successful coach with them, per seble... Just keep on generating them, to pray on some poor soul who can't play the game to get that money! ha!

Also -- Never recruit someone who isn't scouted passed L1... It could be contrived as rule breaking.

"These types of things really bug me, because there's really no reason for it. I wish everyone could just play the game fairly and have fun. Is it really that rewarding to bend the rules as far as possible?"

I missed this portion of the Seble post because I was skimming but omg, how ridiculous is that. I mean, sure, Sportsbulls was working the rules a little bit -- I'm not denying that -- but in reality, what Seble is saying here is that it is against the rules/unfair for a D3 Program to recruit D3 players. If that's the case then Seble and WIS team should fix D3 recruits so that they're not totally useless.

Seble, for what it's worth from me as a new user: Glitches, errors, trolls clogging up the forum, coaches jumping from school to school with no hit to reputation/loyalty, coaches able to take two schools within 1000 miles of each other and not getting caught until a forum post is made, etc. really bug the userbase too.

But sure, take it out on sportsbulls for recruiting the unusable D3 players that are only unusable b/c of the way this game is designed. Makes no sense to me.

It's like Adam Silver giving James Harden a warning for his play style because he found alternative ways to be a great scorer, lol. Makes no sense.

One thing I think is important here, whether it's being mentioned directly or not, this is yet another derail ab90 thread.

The people here "loosely" defending ab90 (or the ones that feel what bulls did is improper), kcsundevil, Gillespie, johnsensing.... what do they all have in common? They are predominately D1 coaches.

They don't deal with ab90. They don't lose out on jobs because of him. They don't get his leftovers. None of that. So I don't blame them for not giving a crap. But there's plenty of the coaches in this thread that do. You D1 coaches don't realize how shady it is. I don't job hop so it don't impact me as much.

But for you D1ers, to help you understand, say a coach had A+ UCLA goes and wins a championship. Cool you don't have to deal with him cuz he's losing all those EEs right? Nope, same coach is at A+ UNC now. With a stud roster. And next season he's at A+ UK. Never dealing with whatever you have to deal with.

Again, if your established and happy where you're at in D1, cool, it may not "effect" you. It doesn't really affect me when he does it. I'm planted at my schools. But watching it unfold is just goofy to watch. Over and over.

The 3 of you I mentioned, I'm not necessarily saying you're defending him. I don't wanna speak for you. But what I am saying, is ab90 is the reason that so many AREN'T defending the situation at hand.

This is an ab90 problem. And if calling him out directly gets me reprimanded, I'll take my punishment like a man. I've talked to you in tickets, sitemails, and now forums seble.

I don't know what else to say to you. Please give us something besides side stepping responses. You want an A+ D2/D3 job? Have A+ loyalty and reputation. You leave schools before x seasons? Your rep and loyalty drops to a C.
problem solved! All that needs to be done, is implement a part of the game, that's already a part of the game!! How hard can this possibly be?!

+1

Posted by seble on 8/24/2020 3:38:00 PM (view original):
Hey guys, instead of fielding a bunch of support tickets, I'll post to address the situation. We were alerted to the fact that Sportsbulls signed 5 recruits who were below the appropriate level of the team just before leaving it. In this case, the recruits were scouted only to level 1, and were recruited/signed in one day, the final day of recruiting period 1. The quality of the players is arguable, but these facts lead me to believe it was done intentionally to take those scholarship openings away from the next coach. I don't see a valid reason for a very successful coach, who is normally signing DI/DII level recruits, to sign these players on the way out the door. Behavior that unfairly impedes another coach is prohibited.

Here are some other key points:

1. It doesn't matter who reported this. When I get a report, I investigate the situation objectively and take any appropriate actions. If someone wants to report something by ab90, by all means do that, but it's irrelevant to this discussion.

2. There was no punishment handed out here to Sportsbulls, just a warning to avoid this type of behavior.

3. The admission by Sportsbulls of effectively locking down recruits at one school before signing them at another school was not a factor in my response. It's certainly pushing up against the idea of fair play, but it is not relevant to this situation.

4. Every situation is different, but if I find that another coach does this (clearly signing players just to fill scholarships on the way out), I would react the exact same way.

5. There are only so many protections we can build into the game, so we rely on the community for some level of honor in how they play the game. These types of things really bug me, because there's really no reason for it. I wish everyone could just play the game fairly and have fun. Is it really that rewarding to bend the rules as far as possible?

Thank you seble. I agree, it's too bad some guys won't take the "some level of honor" idea on board. There will always be loopholes.

Beachhouse
4 months ago

Hi,
In Naismith World there is an owner that currently has two teams within 1K miles of each other. This season begins on April 30th.
ab90 has Colorado Mesa in D2 while abninety has Washington (MO) in D3
These schools are less than 1K miles apart; so he is in violation of the fairplay guidelines.
I feel as though this isn't the first instance.
Actually it isn't
In Iba he currently has teams less than 900 miles apart. It is again in violation of the rules.
ab90 has Concordia, St. Paul in D2 and abninety has Texas, Tyler in D3
Hopefully we as a community are given the chance to play this game with an even playing field moving forward. Especially those of us that are paying customers.
Thanks


WhatIfSports Admin
4 months ago

Hi,

We're aware of these accounts. In this case, the schools are 982 miles apart, which we are ok with. We're working with him to make sure he fixes violations in each world at the end of the current season.

Thanks.
Thanks for playing on WhatIfSports.


Beachhouse
4 months ago

The other schools are less than 900 apart.
We either have rules as a community or we don't. I've been here since 2003, through a lot of issues and I've always been a paying customer. I also talk with a lot of guys in the HD community. Nobody is happy in regard to how this is being handled. It hasn't been addressed properly. I hear long time users who are starting to drop squads etc. and a lot of that has to do with the addressing of our concerns.
Thats just my 2 cents. There isn't a game without the community.


WhatIfSports Admin
4 months ago

He's been given the current season in each world to rectify the situation. That's our standard process for these violations when there is no evidence of cheating. He's not getting any special treatment.

Thanks
Thanks for playing on WhatIfSports.

Posted by beachhouse on 8/24/2020 5:00:00 PM (view original):
Beachhouse
4 months ago

Hi,
In Naismith World there is an owner that currently has two teams within 1K miles of each other. This season begins on April 30th.
ab90 has Colorado Mesa in D2 while abninety has Washington (MO) in D3
These schools are less than 1K miles apart; so he is in violation of the fairplay guidelines.
I feel as though this isn't the first instance.
Actually it isn't
In Iba he currently has teams less than 900 miles apart. It is again in violation of the rules.
ab90 has Concordia, St. Paul in D2 and abninety has Texas, Tyler in D3
Hopefully we as a community are given the chance to play this game with an even playing field moving forward. Especially those of us that are paying customers.
Thanks


WhatIfSports Admin
4 months ago

Hi,

We're aware of these accounts. In this case, the schools are 982 miles apart, which we are ok with. We're working with him to make sure he fixes violations in each world at the end of the current season.

Thanks.
Thanks for playing on WhatIfSports.


Beachhouse
4 months ago

The other schools are less than 900 apart.
We either have rules as a community or we don't. I've been here since 2003, through a lot of issues and I've always been a paying customer. I also talk with a lot of guys in the HD community. Nobody is happy in regard to how this is being handled. It hasn't been addressed properly. I hear long time users who are starting to drop squads etc. and a lot of that has to do with the addressing of our concerns.
Thats just my 2 cents. There isn't a game without the community.


WhatIfSports Admin
4 months ago

He's been given the current season in each world to rectify the situation. That's our standard process for these violations when there is no evidence of cheating. He's not getting any special treatment.

Thanks
Thanks for playing on WhatIfSports.

So was the situation rectified at the end of the seasons at issue? If so, what else should seble have done?