If all that mattered to top tier programs was Sweet 16s, Steve Lavin would still be at UCLA.

Thanks to hawkfan and shoe for pointing out the issue that I’m going to run into at Illinois in Phelan. There is literally no way that team is going to go from 0-27 to the Sweet 16 in 3 more seasons. I picked up the team with 4 walkons and 8 garbage sim recruits and was basically a passenger during this first season. On top of that I’m currently recruiting from a C+ and not able to go after guys that are gonna get me 3 rounds deep in the NT. I’ll be shocked if this team even makes the NT in 4 seasons in a full Big Ten loaded with great coaches.

I think the main disconnect with the firing methodology is that the Illinois’ A+ baseline really has no effect on my first 4 seasons. Until I can replace the SIM garbage and right the ship, I’m no different than any other C+ school just trying to make the dance.

I think there has to be some adjustment to the requirements based on how far below baseline the team is when you take it over.

Also, am I understanding correctly that the 4 season clock is ticking starting next season, but that the actual firings won’t happen until the patch is released in the fall?

Posted by slayterhill on 5/27/2021 7:18:00 PM (view original):
Also, am I understanding correctly that the 4 season clock is ticking starting next season, but that the actual firings won’t happen until the patch is released in the fall?

that sounds about right - i think basically they are saying - in about 6 months they will start firings - and they will take effect immediately, based on the last 4 seasons. if you are 2/day there are more like 6 seasons till that happens, but it would still be based on the last 4.

sounds like you would be totally boned... good example... but i am hopeful they will react to the plethora of comments about a grace period. they seem like reasonable guys i wouldn't get too worried about it - at least not yet!

wait a second - C+ prestige? i thought that was roughly impossible. i have never really believed it was actually impossible but i think when someone scraped the entire history of HD they could find 0 examples of a school dropping 2 grades below baseline (although baselines are not really known, generally speaking). if your illinois is a c+ it would be the first example i am aware of where a school definitively dropped 2 grades below baseline. or maybe illinois is actually A prestige but seems unlikely... how bad is that big 10, whats the b10 conf prestige in your world?

Posted by gillispie on 5/27/2021 7:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slayterhill on 5/27/2021 7:18:00 PM (view original):
Also, am I understanding correctly that the 4 season clock is ticking starting next season, but that the actual firings won’t happen until the patch is released in the fall?

that sounds about right - i think basically they are saying - in about 6 months they will start firings - and they will take effect immediately, based on the last 4 seasons. if you are 2/day there are more like 6 seasons till that happens, but it would still be based on the last 4.

sounds like you would be totally boned... good example... but i am hopeful they will react to the plethora of comments about a grace period. they seem like reasonable guys i wouldn't get too worried about it - at least not yet!

wait a second - C+ prestige? i thought that was roughly impossible. i have never really believed it was actually impossible but i think when someone scraped the entire history of HD they could find 0 examples of a school dropping 2 grades below baseline (although baselines are not really known, generally speaking). if your illinois is a c+ it would be the first example i am aware of where a school definitively dropped 2 grades below baseline. or maybe illinois is actually A prestige but seems unlikely... how bad is that big 10, whats the b10 conf prestige in your world?

My Villanova rebuild is two grades lower, its currently a D+. It definitely happens

Posted by emy1013 on 5/27/2021 1:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 5/26/2021 8:05:00 PM (view original):
i read it as, these things have to be achieved in the previous 4 seasons to avoid getting fired - a condition that will be checked every season - but i could be totally off base there

This is how I interpreted it as well. I do like the idea of success above and beyond the minimum requirement granting a little extra leeway on the four year timeframe though.

I think the addition of actual firings with some teeth is great and should have been implemented years ago.

One last thing, I agree with Gil that certain schools may have to be looked at and adjusted. His Utah/BYU scenario is a perfect example.

apparently i am totally wrong and utah is B baseline... looks like they are only including B baseline schools in the tier 3

And gill, if this was in effect back in HD 2.0, you were very close to getting canned @ Kansas in Tark except for your one S16 appearance in S87 before you righted the ship starting in S91.

Posted by gillispie on 5/27/2021 7:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slayterhill on 5/27/2021 7:18:00 PM (view original):
Also, am I understanding correctly that the 4 season clock is ticking starting next season, but that the actual firings won’t happen until the patch is released in the fall?

that sounds about right - i think basically they are saying - in about 6 months they will start firings - and they will take effect immediately, based on the last 4 seasons. if you are 2/day there are more like 6 seasons till that happens, but it would still be based on the last 4.

sounds like you would be totally boned... good example... but i am hopeful they will react to the plethora of comments about a grace period. they seem like reasonable guys i wouldn't get too worried about it - at least not yet!

wait a second - C+ prestige? i thought that was roughly impossible. i have never really believed it was actually impossible but i think when someone scraped the entire history of HD they could find 0 examples of a school dropping 2 grades below baseline (although baselines are not really known, generally speaking). if your illinois is a c+ it would be the first example i am aware of where a school definitively dropped 2 grades below baseline. or maybe illinois is actually A prestige but seems unlikely... how bad is that big 10, whats the b10 conf prestige in your world?

Yep, legimately at a C+ and that was before this 0-27 season, so will be interesting to see if it falls any farther. Big Ten is currently a B- in Phelan.

Here is another thought - someone may have already mentioned this. I was on page 2 when I thought of it and wanted to post it while I thought of it. Perhaps their could be some randomness to it - sort of like the EES - such as:
COACHING STATUS:
Safe
On the Bubble
Likely Fired
Last Chance

But not the EE part where someone gets fired when they are Safe. So maybe one of the top teams not making the Sweet 16 after 4 years is on the Bubble, and there's like a 50/50 chance they get fired, maybe likely fired is a 75% chance of getting fired, and Last chance is just that. each year they miss the stated goal, they move one rung down the ladder, so after 6 years they are for sure fired.


Another perhaps interesting thought off the top of my head would be perhaps the AD sends out some emails to coaches of good programs asking if they might have an interest in coaching that program. If good coaches reply that they have an interest, that increases the chance of the firings.

Posted by chapelhillne on 5/27/2021 8:31:00 PM (view original):
Here is another thought - someone may have already mentioned this. I was on page 2 when I thought of it and wanted to post it while I thought of it. Perhaps their could be some randomness to it - sort of like the EES - such as:
COACHING STATUS:
Safe
On the Bubble
Likely Fired
Last Chance

But not the EE part where someone gets fired when they are Safe. So maybe one of the top teams not making the Sweet 16 after 4 years is on the Bubble, and there's like a 50/50 chance they get fired, maybe likely fired is a 75% chance of getting fired, and Last chance is just that. each year they miss the stated goal, they move one rung down the ladder, so after 6 years they are for sure fired.


Another perhaps interesting thought off the top of my head would be perhaps the AD sends out some emails to coaches of good programs asking if they might have an interest in coaching that program. If good coaches reply that they have an interest, that increases the chance of the firings.

i normally like your ideas about job changes and stuff, but i have to be honest, adding a random element to firings sounds like a nightmare. the thing i am absolutely 100% in support of, when it comes to adam's proposal, is having a fully transparent firing process. preferably a simple one, too.

Posted by gillispie on 5/27/2021 8:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by chapelhillne on 5/27/2021 8:31:00 PM (view original):
Here is another thought - someone may have already mentioned this. I was on page 2 when I thought of it and wanted to post it while I thought of it. Perhaps their could be some randomness to it - sort of like the EES - such as:
COACHING STATUS:
Safe
On the Bubble
Likely Fired
Last Chance

But not the EE part where someone gets fired when they are Safe. So maybe one of the top teams not making the Sweet 16 after 4 years is on the Bubble, and there's like a 50/50 chance they get fired, maybe likely fired is a 75% chance of getting fired, and Last chance is just that. each year they miss the stated goal, they move one rung down the ladder, so after 6 years they are for sure fired.


Another perhaps interesting thought off the top of my head would be perhaps the AD sends out some emails to coaches of good programs asking if they might have an interest in coaching that program. If good coaches reply that they have an interest, that increases the chance of the firings.

i normally like your ideas about job changes and stuff, but i have to be honest, adding a random element to firings sounds like a nightmare. the thing i am absolutely 100% in support of, when it comes to adam's proposal, is having a fully transparent firing process. preferably a simple one, too.

A million % agree. DO NOT DO THIS.

Posted by crabman26 on 5/27/2021 7:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie on 5/27/2021 7:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by slayterhill on 5/27/2021 7:18:00 PM (view original):
Also, am I understanding correctly that the 4 season clock is ticking starting next season, but that the actual firings won’t happen until the patch is released in the fall?

that sounds about right - i think basically they are saying - in about 6 months they will start firings - and they will take effect immediately, based on the last 4 seasons. if you are 2/day there are more like 6 seasons till that happens, but it would still be based on the last 4.

sounds like you would be totally boned... good example... but i am hopeful they will react to the plethora of comments about a grace period. they seem like reasonable guys i wouldn't get too worried about it - at least not yet!

wait a second - C+ prestige? i thought that was roughly impossible. i have never really believed it was actually impossible but i think when someone scraped the entire history of HD they could find 0 examples of a school dropping 2 grades below baseline (although baselines are not really known, generally speaking). if your illinois is a c+ it would be the first example i am aware of where a school definitively dropped 2 grades below baseline. or maybe illinois is actually A prestige but seems unlikely... how bad is that big 10, whats the b10 conf prestige in your world?

My Villanova rebuild is two grades lower, its currently a D+. It definitely happens

UConn was C+ when I took it, and stayed there for two more seasons, even when I had them at .500. So it wasn’t just borderline either, it was solid.

wow... i had no idea i was so ignorant of all things baseline prestige. thanks for the counter examples guys!

Ultimately, all I think this is going to do is change the list of schools that are “most desirable”. You will see revolving doors at the top schools that get hit by poor dice rolls and and EE runs. Additionally, schools is good recruiting areas with poor baselines (ie Baylor) will become the schools that coaches want to land at as they can run up their prestige without having to worry about losing the job they’ve invested hundreds of dollars in getting too.

I don’t mind the idea of firings, but I’m not sure I see how this helps attract and/or keep paying customers involved in the game.

It seems to me that if this gets implemented as is, a lot of teams lower than those tiers and not subject to those same requirements may start showing up in the S16 who have never been there before.