Posted by tmacfan12 on 10/30/2022 8:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by texashick on 10/30/2022 8:46:00 AM (view original):
Here’s what I’d like to see happen in this order:

1) close the loophole
2) figure out how many players exploited it
3) return all of their accounts and alts to that of a brand new starter. So if they want to keep playing, it starts at D3. If they are “suspended/banned” for a few seasons, they will come back with a resume earned through cheating

i also think Benis deserves some site credit for finding this.

But how do we know they just won't search to find another loophole and then exploit it more slyly? Benis had to self report this for it to be found out, that can't be forgotten here. Also yes Benis I think you deserve the statue

I’m not against a full time ban either. Mostly just against a suspension that would allow him/them to continue to benefit from their resume.

I’ve only been back a few years now and the only two fair play guidelines I’ve seen play out were AB and the guy who intentionally lost a NT game against his alt. IMO this is severely worse. AB wasn’t actually using that recruiting knowledge (as he wasn’t even recruiting) and the NT game guy *probably* got the result he would have anyway. This is blatant cheating. Probably someone reading the code and trying it exploit it. That shouldn’t be tolerated in a game lit this at all

i will suggest another thing to think about and i'll shut up too. hypothetically, if WIS doesn't punish him, we take matters into our own hands and target all of his recruits season after season until he goes away. because if they don't punish him why would they punish anybody else for anything?? and suddenly HD turns into the wild wild west (which could be fun for a few seasons actually...). if that's what WIS wants they can have it easily.

My point exactly ^^^^

I’d consider getting a team in Allen with no intent to compete, but only to target his players. Why? Just because. But I will say I’m super curious how this plays out!

Posted by gomiami1972 on 10/30/2022 7:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 10/30/2022 6:45:00 PM (view original):
"just not as hysterical about it. CS doesn't need to ban the guy the same day to reasonably respond to the situation. its not even the end of the 1st day, heading into a holiday weekend, and the posts start about CS needs to ban him or we are all quitting"

Totally understand your point. And you're right... Except in this situation. The reason CS is doing ANYTHING about this is BECAUSE everyone freaked out. If people didn't freak out then nothing, not even a "we'll look in to it" would have happened. It's a big difference.

I do think that WIS would have done something eventually. You are absolutely correct that the reaction on the forums is forcing WIS to address the situation now rather than at their leisure (next year's supposed update.)

That's too bad.

Yeah, I echo this. This is the perspective from much of the community—nothing happens by CS if everyone doesn’t go mob crazy with pitchforks. Now is this the truth or does CS have a process in place in how this is handled (and the same result, whatever that is, would still happen)?… maybe, maybe not. But with no transparency or a history of how it’s been addressed in the past or policies of how it will be addressed in the future, it’s tough for anyone in the community to believe that.

I agree with Gil that taking a mob approach isn’t the best approach—but until the community trusts that CS will enforce fair play swiftly & effectively (without being pressured), the mob approach will continue. And I believe rightfully so.

Posted by topdogggbm on 10/30/2022 10:24:00 PM (view original):
My point exactly ^^^^

I’d consider getting a team in Allen with no intent to compete, but only to target his players. Why? Just because. But I will say I’m super curious how this plays out!

Unless you can pay for that team solely with credits, it doesn't make sense to reward WIS with extra money for not taking action. The only viable option for protest is to drop teams. Hit WIS where it hurts.

The only reasonable action is for the offender to vacate any team that has used this exploit (which I'm assuming is both his teams). I also think there should be a ban of 2-3 seasons.

I also built a small statue for Benis. Our dark knight.

It can be purchased for around $40 USD.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253183943919

And a question for those that have competed against him. How long do you suspect he's been cheating?

Posted by mlitney on 10/31/2022 12:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 10/30/2022 10:24:00 PM (view original):
My point exactly ^^^^

I’d consider getting a team in Allen with no intent to compete, but only to target his players. Why? Just because. But I will say I’m super curious how this plays out!

Unless you can pay for that team solely with credits, it doesn't make sense to reward WIS with extra money for not taking action. The only viable option for protest is to drop teams. Hit WIS where it hurts.

The only reasonable action is for the offender to vacate any team that has used this exploit (which I'm assuming is both his teams). I also think there should be a ban of 2-3 seasons.

Was more sarcasm. I just have my pitchfork out. But yes I have a nice stock of credits too. But regardless, I’m just being a butthead

Posted by mlitney on 10/31/2022 12:26:00 AM (view original):
I also built a small statue for Benis. Our dark knight.

It can be purchased for around $40 USD.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253183943919

Looks pretty life like to me!

Posted by uglyskunk3 on 10/31/2022 4:19:00 AM (view original):
And a question for those that have competed against him. How long do you suspect he's been cheating?

Benis said earlier that he thinks the 15 seasons he's competed in the Big East, he's noticed St. John's on a ton of recruits.

I will say this, St. John's played a slow down, tough D style of play for a long time, and it seems the last 5 or 6 seasons (or maybe slightly longer), he has gone to an uptempo, try to score 100 a game type of game plan. Not sure if it is related to the recruits he has been getting or not.

Yeah hard to say how many seasons he's been cheating. I don't know if it goes back the entire time I've been at cuse but I do know that we've battled since day 1 due to the proximity. I feel more confident saying it's likely for the past few seasons as that's when I started to get a little suspicious of the tactics.

I'll add that I just lost a dice roll to Swenske for a pretty legit 4 star. Awesome.

Posted by texashick on 10/30/2022 9:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tmacfan12 on 10/30/2022 8:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by texashick on 10/30/2022 8:46:00 AM (view original):
Here’s what I’d like to see happen in this order:

1) close the loophole
2) figure out how many players exploited it
3) return all of their accounts and alts to that of a brand new starter. So if they want to keep playing, it starts at D3. If they are “suspended/banned” for a few seasons, they will come back with a resume earned through cheating

i also think Benis deserves some site credit for finding this.

But how do we know they just won't search to find another loophole and then exploit it more slyly? Benis had to self report this for it to be found out, that can't be forgotten here. Also yes Benis I think you deserve the statue

I’m not against a full time ban either. Mostly just against a suspension that would allow him/them to continue to benefit from their resume.

I’ve only been back a few years now and the only two fair play guidelines I’ve seen play out were AB and the guy who intentionally lost a NT game against his alt. IMO this is severely worse. AB wasn’t actually using that recruiting knowledge (as he wasn’t even recruiting) and the NT game guy *probably* got the result he would have anyway. This is blatant cheating. Probably someone reading the code and trying it exploit it. That shouldn’t be tolerated in a game lit this at all

i generally agree with all this. one note -

'This is blatant cheating. Probably someone reading the code and trying it exploit it. That shouldn’t be tolerated in a game lit this at all'

- HD code is protected on HD servers, generally speaking. there is some browser-side code, but browser-side checks are never sufficient, and the server-side checks are what you'd have to bypass. that code shouldn't be available to any user here.

- anything that falls in the realm of 1) hacking HD servers to access their code or modify code or data, 2) using tooling (anything but a vanilla desktop or mobile web browser) to manipulate your web requests to bypass HD security, or 3) running any executable or program to exploit a vulnerability in HD... those are all very serious offenses by definition. even if the actual benefit was very small, like way less than the cheating in this thread, any of that stuff is an attack on HD itself, more of a hack than a glitch or exploit, and possibly illegal. anything sophisticated like that, those kinds of threats are much more existential by nature and usually demand a strong response from the organization itself.

- CS said earlier to benis that this guy found a loophole through the interace. i think that means he found something in the browser, none of the stuff in the hacking department.

anyway, not defending the guy, or CS, or saying this isn't serious. just that there is generally a big difference in how organizations view these threats, if its through the UI it is a problem for the local admins, the HD game admins. the external attacks are really hacking and tend to get escalated past the local admin group pretty quickly.

Posted by Benis on 10/29/2022 2:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 10/29/2022 12:54:00 PM (view original):
I don't mean to jump to his defense, but am pretty sure this guy hasn't been using the exploit for long. I was in a conference with him in Allen for a while and never noticed anything out of the ordinary. I'm a very observant coach and didn't notice anything wrong. I think any possible repercussions for him should be less severe since this could be the first cycle he's used this in. I'm interested to see what the glitch is, honestly.

This was definitely not the first time he's used this glitch. There's a reason I decided to look into this further. I've recruited against him for a long time now and have noticed odd behavior for quite awhile.

But whether he's done it 2 times, 5 times, 20 times, I don't think it really matter.

Edit: you were at Louisville when in BE. Swenske doesnt venture outside his 500 mile radius from NYC so that's probably when you didn't really notice. Since I'm at syracuse, we're going for the exact same players every season.

A few seasons ago he recruited internationals and I thought he was in the South as well (I'm in Arkansas in D2 Allen). Anyway, the only reason something seemed odd was he had something like 26 scholarships offered by day 2 or 3 of recruiting, and those are just the kids I could see. At the time I didn't think much of it because he was an A- D1 school and most of the kids were mediocre D1 players so I figured he could unlock scholarships with just a few APs each. But I have no idea how many more kids in the NE part of the country he was recruiting that I never paid attention to/could see because I didn't unlock them.

Hello Everyone,

Thank you all for your patience with this matter and allowing us time to review the situation that we were recently made aware of. We have found multiple users were using the recruiting exploit and they no longer have site access. We have not yet closed the loophole within recruiting so at this time will not disclose what happened but the devs are working on a solution that will be pushed live in the coming days and when that does a forum post will go out letting the community know of the impacts of the changes that are being made.

Benis, the HD community is in your debt.