Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

swamphawk22
Posts: 13021 (0)
Hall of Famer
9 4 8 3 84 113 36
Prospect
Posted by jrd_x on 6/3/2012 12:02:00 AM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 6/2/2012 11:26:00 PM (view original):
As I have said before I would vote for SSM if it was asked of me.

This is not an issue of the correctness of same sex marriage, this is about the rights of the people as opposed to the Federal Government.

Doesn't this come down to the rights of one group of people vs the vote of a slim majority?
It was a slim majority in California, in some states it was 2-1.

And it is still a majority...36 times.

I find it a threat to democracy if we keep letting the Federal Government tell the states what to do.
6/3/2012 1:00 AM
jrd_x
Posts: 1481 (0)
Prospect
3
Prospect
Don't the courts have a responsibility to protect the minority from votes like this?
6/3/2012 10:32 AM
swamphawk22
Posts: 13021 (0)
Hall of Famer
9 4 8 3 84 113 36
Prospect
You are framing it as a defense of rights. Why?


why does this rise to the same level as racial civil rights?

Are you portraying the problems that gay Americans face as similar to the problems that black Americans faced in the 50s?
6/3/2012 11:05 AM
jrd_x
Posts: 1481 (0)
Prospect
3
Prospect
This is a defense of rights.  In California, same sex couples had the right to marry.  Then the voters took the right away from just a small minority.  This is the exact situation the courts were put in place for.
6/3/2012 11:12 AM
swamphawk22
Posts: 13021 (0)
Hall of Famer
9 4 8 3 84 113 36
Prospect
They were given the right by a decision of the court, who took it away when the Constitution was changed by the people.

Is this a rights issue, or a resonable regulation put on marriage?
6/3/2012 11:25 AM
swamphawk22
Posts: 13021 (0)
Hall of Famer
9 4 8 3 84 113 36
Prospect
I realize that we have a representative government, but an actual vote of the people of a state should be the highest weight, in my opinion.
6/3/2012 11:26 AM
jrd_x
Posts: 1481 (0)
Prospect
3
Prospect
Posted by swamphawk22 on 6/3/2012 11:25:00 AM (view original):
They were given the right by a decision of the court, who took it away when the Constitution was changed by the people.

Is this a rights issue, or a resonable regulation put on marriage?
For some issues, a direct vote is fine.

I think pot should be legal.  But, when put to a vote, it remains illegal.  That's ok, because the people voting to make it illegal for me are also voting to make it illegal for themselves.

With regard to same sex marriage, people are voting for a regulation that they themselves won't be affected by.  They can still get married and are voting away someone else's right to marry.  That's the problem.
6/3/2012 11:38 AM
toddcommish
Posts: 5084 (0)
Hall of Famer
516 10 1 14 16 90
Prospect
Posted by jrd_x on 6/3/2012 11:12:00 AM (view original):
This is a defense of rights.  In California, same sex couples had the right to marry.  Then the voters took the right away from just a small minority.  This is the exact situation the courts were put in place for.

So, you're arguing that a fringe group, say, LGBT or NAMBLA or pot smokers, think they have a right to do something, that the majority can't make a law to prevent it?

6/3/2012 1:20 PM
jrd_x
Posts: 1481 (0)
Prospect
3
Prospect
See my post directly above yours.
6/3/2012 1:35 PM
tecwrg
Posts: 18997 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 166 32 129
Prospect
I'll rephrase todd's question.

Are you arguing that people should not be able to vote on issues that do not directly affect them?
6/3/2012 1:45 PM
tecwrg
Posts: 18997 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 166 32 129
Prospect
Posted by jrd_x on 6/3/2012 11:38:00 AM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 6/3/2012 11:25:00 AM (view original):
They were given the right by a decision of the court, who took it away when the Constitution was changed by the people.

Is this a rights issue, or a resonable regulation put on marriage?
For some issues, a direct vote is fine.

I think pot should be legal.  But, when put to a vote, it remains illegal.  That's ok, because the people voting to make it illegal for me are also voting to make it illegal for themselves.

With regard to same sex marriage, people are voting for a regulation that they themselves won't be affected by.  They can still get married and are voting away someone else's right to marry.  That's the problem.
That is a very poorly thought out analogy.

If a person votes to keep pot illegal, you're saying that's OK because they're voting to make it illegal for themselves.

If a person votes against SSM, you're saying that's not OK because they're not affected by it.  Which is false.  They are still affected by it because they are also voting to take that "right" away from themselves.

If a person is predisposed to (a) not want to smoke pot, and (b) not want to marry a person of the same sex, how can you say one vote is OK while the other is not?
6/3/2012 1:54 PM
jrd_x
Posts: 1481 (0)
Prospect
3
Prospect
A straight person isn't affected if a gay person can or cannot get married.
6/3/2012 2:01 PM
tecwrg
Posts: 18997 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 166 32 129
Prospect
Posted by jrd_x on 6/3/2012 2:01:00 PM (view original):
A straight person isn't affected if a gay person can or cannot get married.
Way to twist the argument.

Assuming I was not currently married, I would currently have the legal right to marry another man in the state in which I currently live.  If It came up for a public vote, and I voted against same sex marriage in my state, would I not be voting to take away that legal right?

It doesn't matter if it's a right that I would be predisposed to exercise, but according to your reasoning, it's still a right that I currently have.  Correct?
6/3/2012 2:09 PM
tecwrg
Posts: 18997 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 166 32 129
Prospect
Posted by jrd_x on 6/3/2012 2:01:00 PM (view original):
A straight person isn't affected if a gay person can or cannot get married.
Is a person who has never smoked pot affected if a pot head can legally buy it?
6/3/2012 2:10 PM
swamphawk22
Posts: 13021 (0)
Hall of Famer
9 4 8 3 84 113 36
Prospect
And we are not banning anything. We are regulating marriage.

Just like alcohol is legal, but you cant buy it on certain days and kids cant buy it.
6/3/2012 3:25 PM
◂ Prev 1...87|88|89|90|91...462 Next ▸
Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2025 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.