Training Camp position players Topic

iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009
SIMMY doesn't draft 17 pitchers, you do.

Not if they are 1B/LF quality that can't hit, you won't.

And, if they don't, the players rot. With a shortened draft, someone desperate for a back-up catcher or defensive SS in LoA can sign the undrafted player.

In order:

I don't know... never happened to me, but people complain about it a lot.

Why must they be the most useless players? There are high Stamina or Durability pitchers, why not guys with green ratings in the 60s or 70s and single-digit blue ratings? STA/DUR make the TC pitchers useful, just as RA/GL/AS/AA will make TC PPs useful. A warm body to play 2B at a resonable defensive proficiency for the AA-level while barely being able to hit their way out of a wet paper bag shouldn't be tipping the balance of power in even the most 'tardy world.

Why does the draft have to be shortened to provide these players? Again, a warm body to play 2B at a resonable defensive proficiency for the AA-level while barely being able to hit their way out of a wet paper bag shouldn't be tipping the balance of power in even the most 'tardy world.
9/30/2009 5:15 PM
toddcommish
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Back to my original point.

Keep the draft the same. It's important for teams to RESERVE the right to sign 25 shiny new players every year.

Put all undrafted players into the Tryout Camp pool. Since everyone has 25 draftees, there won't be fighting over the 801st best player, but there will be enough fodder here to fill in rosters as the RL progresses. Pitchers will likely be the same level as tryout camp pitchers anyway.

Put all unsigned players into the minor league FA pool at the beginning of the next season (along with minimal progression, if any), where they will remain until signed or two seasons pass.

9/30/2009 5:16 PM
MikeT23
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Here's what happens(and I assume anyone with a functioning brain knows this):

You draft. You determine who can hit at the BL level at their position. You sign them. That's it.

You then go to the neverending talent pool of good fielders call the training camp. You fill out your rosters.

That's what I do with pitching now. That's what I'll do with position players if I can get some good fielders from the TC. And, if you're not going to replenish the TC, you've got your feeding frenzy that terrifies each of you already.
9/30/2009 5:18 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By toddcommish on 9/30/2009
Keep the draft the same. It's important for teams to RESERVE the right to sign 25 shiny new players every year.





Why?

Because that's how MLB does it? No.

Because teams need these players? They'll be able to access more of them under my plan.

Because that's how HBD started and change is THE DEVIL?!?!?



I don't have a problem with your idea. You just can't make a good argument as to why my idea is SATAN'S SPAWN!!!
9/30/2009 5:21 PM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009
Here's what happens(and I assume anyone with a functioning brain knows this):

You draft. You determine who can hit at the BL level at their position. You sign them. That's it.

You then go to the neverending talent pool of good fielders call the training camp. You fill out your rosters.

That's what I do with pitching now. That's what I'll do with position players if I can get some good fielders from the TC. And, if you're not going to replenish the TC, you've got your feeding frenzy that terrifies each of you already.

That's what YOU do. I sign anyone that can contribute at any level in the minor leagues, since I recognize the value of having decent fielding/hitting players at the low levels.

That 70/70/40/45 fielding 2B that hits .160 in LowA helps more than putting a team of nine 1B/LF types behind my future star SP1/SP2.
9/30/2009 5:22 PM
toddcommish
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009
I don't have a problem with your idea. You just can't make a good argument as to why my idea is SATAN'S SPAWN!!!
I never invoked Satan in my disdain for your idea. Your idea is change for change's sake (kinda like voting for Obammy was). It doesn't solve any issues that mine doesn't for much less programming work.

9/30/2009 5:24 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By toddcommish on 9/30/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009

Here's what happens(and I assume anyone with a functioning brain knows this):

You draft. You determine who can hit at the BL level at their position. You sign them. That's it.

You then go to the neverending talent pool of good fielders call the training camp. You fill out your rosters.

That's what I do with pitching now. That's what I'll do with position players if I can get some good fielders from the TC. And, if you're not going to replenish the TC, you've got your feeding frenzy that terrifies each of you already.

That's what YOU do. I sign anyone that can contribute at any level in the minor leagues, since I recognize the value of having decent fielding/hitting players at the low levels.

That 70/70/40/45 fielding 2B that hits .160 in LowA helps more than putting a team of nine 1B/LF types behind my future star SP1/SP2.



RTFP
9/30/2009 5:32 PM
randallball
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There are only 5 cycles between the draft and when the Rookie League season starts. So now are you pushing back the start of the Rookie League season to fit in this new "Minor League FA" period? Pushing up the draft?

And - if so - why again, exactly? Nothing is really being "solved", right?

On the other hand, you could keep the draft @ 25 rounds and just send the unsigned/undrafted draftees into the FA pool and change NOTHING else.
9/30/2009 5:40 PM
randallball
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 9/30/2009Sounds like you are more concerned about YOUR franchise and less about the world overall. That's fine but just say it
9/30/2009 5:42 PM
iain
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Quote: Originally Posted By randallball on 9/30/2009

There are only 5 cycles between the draft and when the Rookie League season starts. So now are you pushing back the start of the Rookie League season to fit in this new "Minor League FA" period? Pushing up the draft?

And - if so - why again, exactly? Nothing is really being "solved", right?

On the other hand, you could keep the draft @ 25 rounds and just send the unsigned/undrafted draftees into the FA pool and change NOTHING else.

No, no... apparently because MikeT23 would ignore the last 15 rounds, none of us should get them either.

I call it his perogative to build his team how he sees fit.

Somehow, he thinks that since that's the way he'd do it, that we'd all do it that way, too, making the last 10-15 rounds moot.

Personally, I think that would make the TC talent pool a little too good. Make people sign their low picks in order to get some semblance of useful players. The PP TC should be to fill out your low minor league bench.
9/30/2009 5:44 PM
iain
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A Position Player Traning Camp should be the source of replacement level players for your low minor leagues.

And, IMHO, repalcement level for the low minors should be of the 25th+ round-level quality.
9/30/2009 5:47 PM
randallball
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Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 9/30/2009
A Position Player Traning Camp should be the source of replacement level players for your low minor leagues.

And, IMHO, repalcement level for the low minors should be of the 25th+ round-level quality.

Agreed.

OK, I'm done here.
9/30/2009 5:50 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By randallball on 9/30/2009
There are only 5 cycles between the draft and when the Rookie League season starts. So now are you pushing back the start of the Rookie League season to fit in this new "Minor League FA" period? Pushing up the draft?

And - if so - why again, exactly? Nothing is really being "solved", right?

On the other hand, you could keep the draft @ 25 rounds and just send the unsigned/undrafted draftees into the FA pool and change NOTHING else.



So 5 cycles isn't enough for everyone to make a bid?
9/30/2009 5:53 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 9/30/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By randallball on 9/30/2009

There are only 5 cycles between the draft and when the Rookie League season starts. So now are you pushing back the start of the Rookie League season to fit in this new "Minor League FA" period? Pushing up the draft?

And - if so - why again, exactly? Nothing is really being "solved", right?

On the other hand, you could keep the draft @ 25 rounds and just send the unsigned/undrafted draftees into the FA pool and change NOTHING else.

No, no... apparently because MikeT23 would ignore the last 15 rounds, none of us should get them either.

I call it his perogative to build his team how he sees fit.

Somehow, he thinks that since that's the way he'd do it, that we'd all do it that way, too, making the last 10-15 rounds moot.

Personally, I think that would make the TC talent pool a little too good. Make people sign their low picks in order to get some semblance of useful players. The PP TC should be to fill out your low minor league bench.



I see no point in throwing 250k-500k in bonus money at a handful of players who I can pick up from a TC PP for nothing.

Maybe you do.
9/30/2009 5:55 PM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By iain on 9/30/2009
A Position Player Traning Camp should be the source of replacement level players for your low minor leagues.

And, IMHO, repalcement level for the low minors should be of the 25th+ round-level quality.



Ahhh, now you're agreeing with me. There will be no AA/AAA SS/2B/CF/C/3B-quality type defenders available in TC.
9/30/2009 5:56 PM
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