Early Entries - seble responds Topic

zhawks
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Ok thanks.
11/11/2009 2:18 PM
moy23
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 11/11/2009
But moy, you do agree that there are much more important things to work on then the rankings (which after numerous tries still hasn't been gotten right), correct? And the rankings really don't mean anything in HD except for a little bit of prestige.

If rankings are amonst the 90% of cs tickets sent in then yes.
11/11/2009 2:41 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By moy23 on 11/11/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 11/11/2009

But moy, you do agree that there are much more important things to work on then the rankings (which after numerous tries still hasn't been gotten right), correct? And the rankings really don't mean anything in HD except for a little bit of prestige.

If rankings are amonst the 90% of cs tickets sent in then yes.


Quote: Originally Posted By moy23 on 11/11/2009
90% of tickets (engine, rankings, tournament seedings, and recruit/player quality, does not = just rankings) is what is being addressed this go-around. thats fair. Let's give it a chance.
11/11/2009 2:53 PM
dalter
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Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 11/11/2009
Rank does impact tournament seedings.
That's my point. Make it so rankings don't impact NT seedings or promotions, and we can put this dumb issue to bed and move on to bigger and better things that can actually enhance HD.

Rankings play absolutely zero role in the real life NT selection process. I know this for a fact, as a family friend of ours was on the committee for a couple years. (And there's zero reason why they would; we're talking about random sheets filled out by grad assistants and other low-level staffers. They are promotional fodder, nothing more.)
11/11/2009 2:56 PM
jskenner
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daalter and zhawks, great work keeping after this topic with seble. It sounds like he's starting to understand the issue a bit. Nice job.
11/11/2009 3:01 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 11/11/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 11/11/2009
Rank does impact tournament seedings.
That's my point. Make it so rankings don't impact NT seedings or promotions, and we can put this dumb issue to bed and move on to bigger and better things that can actually enhance HD.

Rankings play absolutely zero role in the real life NT selection process. I know this for a fact, as a family friend of ours was on the committee for a couple years. (And there's zero reason why they would; we're talking about random sheets filled out by grad assistants and other low-level staffers. They are promotional fodder, nothing more.)

Couldn't agree more. Not only does it save hours and hours of WIS time coding the rankings, we can keep them where they are today - not bad, not great - and understand that this is one place where real life and HD should match.
11/11/2009 3:07 PM
rocksolid33
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As I may jump to to D1 oneday but after reading this, D2 looks like the place to avoid the EE mess and get good competition. Back to the point of the thread, why could'nt WIS add a "Draft Buzz" meter to each player in D1. As the season goes on each player's "Draft Buzz" meter will rise or fall. So atleast a coach would know what his player(s) are thinking. If your Freshman PF has high NBA aspirations at the beginning of the season and it is still high at the end of the season, he is gone. Seems like WIS could solve this problem pretty easily.
11/11/2009 3:19 PM
oldave
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hey zee! I just noticed that sable has more than a few posts in here and that there is some really great dialogue between him and some of the top users in HD.

how about changing the title to :
"Early Entries----Sable Responds!"
or something like that?

im not saying this is earth shattering stuff, but its some good stuff and i think most (all?) users would benefit by understanding Seble's rationale on stuff and the way he thinks, etc.

with the current title some may just think its the same ol complaints, etc and not bother to read.

anyways, thanks to zee, daalty, OR and the others who contributed to an interesting dialogue here.
11/11/2009 3:19 PM
oldave
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Quote: Originally posted by rocksolid33 on 11/11/2009As I may jump to to D1 oneday but after reading this, D2 looks like the place to avoid the EE mess and get good competition. Back to the point of the thread, why could'nt WIS add a "Draft Buzz" meter to each player in D1. As the season goes on each player's "Draft Buzz" meter will rise or fall. So atleast a coach would know what his player(s) are thinking. If your Freshman PF has high NBA aspirations at the beginning of the season and it is still high at the end of the season, he is gone. Seems like WIS could solve this problem pretty easily.


i kinda like this.
11/11/2009 3:20 PM
oldresorter
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seble can attest, I have written up tickets with complaints and suggestions about both EE and rankings, for me, rankings affects the entire tournament each season all 3 divsions - up to 100 coaches, might be 2 or 3 coaches per world who get EE'd, often those at the very top of the food chain, who can fend for themselves. I would much rather see the rankings get fixed.

this season, world 1 is in the CT finals, for most of the year, the acc has had the 1,2,3,4 RPI teams, those teams have been mostly ranked somewhere between 10 and 25. about mid season I predicted they will get a 1,3,4,5 seed in the tourny, while low level conference teams with 8 or 9 or 10 sims in the conference and 1 or 2 losses, will get 1 / 2 seeds. this causes a chain reaction in the tournament, where many of the round 1 matchups make no sense whatsoever, and lets some teams off the hook, while severely penalizes others.
11/11/2009 3:24 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 11/11/2009
seble can attest, I have written up tickets with complaints and suggestions about both EE and rankings, for me, rankings affects the entire tournament each season all 3 divsions - up to 100 coaches, might be 2 or 3 coaches per world who get EE'd, often those at the very top of the food chain, who can fend for themselves. I would much rather see the rankings get fixed.

this season, world 1 is in the CT finals, for most of the year, the acc has had the 1,2,3,4 RPI teams, those teams have been mostly ranked somewhere between 10 and 25. about mid season I predicted they will get a 1,3,4,5 seed in the tourny, while low level conference teams with 8 or 9 or 10 sims in the conference and 1 or 2 losses, will get 1 / 2 seeds. this causes a chain reaction in the tournament, where many of the round 1 matchups make no sense whatsoever, and lets some teams off the hook, while severely penalizes others.

OR, can't that all be fixed by taking a teams ranking out of the NT selection process? Seems like a very easy fix.
11/11/2009 3:26 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 11/11/2009
Quote: Originally posted by rocksolid33 on 11/11/2009 As I may jump to to D1 oneday but after reading this, D2 looks like the place to avoid the EE mess and get good competition. Back to the point of the thread, why could'nt WIS add a "Draft Buzz" meter to each player in D1. As the season goes on each player's "Draft Buzz" meter will rise or fall. So atleast a coach would know what his player(s) are thinking. If your Freshman PF has high NBA aspirations at the beginning of the season and it is still high at the end of the season, he is gone. Seems like WIS could solve this problem pretty easily.


i kinda like this.
done for you ole d.

Interesting idea, prolly a lot of work behind it. Why not just get messages from your guys pre-season or during ooc which would allow for a coach to know which guys are thinking about it (not sure that actually fixes anything but gives you a heads up, i'd rather go for the fix not the heads up). Maybe a way to talk to guys that have declared through the job process and convince them to come back? again lots of code behind that and I doubt it would happen but another thought.

I'd be happy just making EE's soley on ratings and being done with the issue. If you have the talent but can't win with it that sounds like a personal problem to me.
11/11/2009 3:28 PM
dalter
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 11/11/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 11/11/2009

seble can attest, I have written up tickets with complaints and suggestions about both EE and rankings, for me, rankings affects the entire tournament each season all 3 divsions - up to 100 coaches, might be 2 or 3 coaches per world who get EE'd, often those at the very top of the food chain, who can fend for themselves. I would much rather see the rankings get fixed.

this season, world 1 is in the CT finals, for most of the year, the acc has had the 1,2,3,4 RPI teams, those teams have been mostly ranked somewhere between 10 and 25. about mid season I predicted they will get a 1,3,4,5 seed in the tourny, while low level conference teams with 8 or 9 or 10 sims in the conference and 1 or 2 losses, will get 1 / 2 seeds. this causes a chain reaction in the tournament, where many of the round 1 matchups make no sense whatsoever, and lets some teams off the hook, while severely penalizes others.

OR, can't that all be fixed by taking a teams ranking out of the NT selection process? Seems like a very easy fix.
Exactly. The problem there isn't the ranking, the problem is what WIS emphasizes in their selection process. I'm guessing that it's more than just ranking, that those teams will also get penalized for playing in an extremely tough conference and having more losses than other teams in a easy/medium conference.

OR, I agree with you as far as NT seeding being an issue that effects more coaches than EE's. That said, the hit that you take from losing EE's is much, much more detrimental than the hit you get from being seeded 7 when you should be a 4 (and heck, you often luck into a better draw as a 7, lol).
11/11/2009 3:31 PM
oldresorter
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 11/11/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 11/11/2009

seble can attest, I have written up tickets with complaints and suggestions about both EE and rankings, for me, rankings affects the entire tournament each season all 3 divsions - up to 100 coaches, might be 2 or 3 coaches per world who get EE'd, often those at the very top of the food chain, who can fend for themselves. I would much rather see the rankings get fixed.

this season, world 1 is in the CT finals, for most of the year, the acc has had the 1,2,3,4 RPI teams, those teams have been mostly ranked somewhere between 10 and 25. about mid season I predicted they will get a 1,3,4,5 seed in the tourny, while low level conference teams with 8 or 9 or 10 sims in the conference and 1 or 2 losses, will get 1 / 2 seeds. this causes a chain reaction in the tournament, where many of the round 1 matchups make no sense whatsoever, and lets some teams off the hook, while severely penalizes others.

OR, can't that all be fixed by taking a teams ranking out of the NT selection process? Seems like a very easy fix
I completely agree Z, did not know that was on the table as an idea, in the past, i proposed just using rpi, it DOES have flaws, but the formula has been used in college basketball, and overall seems to work. also, many coaches have claimed to game the rpi, in real life too for that matter, but over the seasons, I have seen that 'gaming' backfire, seems the best way to get a good rpi is to win difficult games.
11/11/2009 3:31 PM
zhawks
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OR, not sure it is no the table but it is what dalt and I have been saying through this thread.
11/11/2009 3:37 PM
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