Yeah I see the light now. If i hold them back I'm just finishing off the job the previous tanking owners started with my club. I'll be promoting my prospects, but I still don't plan on spending money on free agents and trying to make a run of the WS, I still want to rebuild etc. I definitely understand what you guys are saying now though.

The bottom line is, as long as you're not breaking any specific world rules, and the other 31 owners don't have problems with the way you're handling your team, you're free to do what you want.

BUT . . . 

In the future, if you want to get into a quality world that frowns upon that kind of stuff, and they have a commish that does a good job of screening interested owners, you might have to explain your record.  And don't be surprised if you get turned down.

Think of your HBD record as a job resume . . .  black marks might come back to haunt you down the road.

Props to you mez for keeping an open mind and actually pay attention to what veteran guys are telling you. The vast majority of newbs don't do that, and insist on learning the hard way.

It shows wisdom and intelligence on your part.

And who knows? With players like that in your lineup, your team may surprise you... we've all had that happen where one of our teams vastly exceeds our own expectations. I feel that those teams are sometimes the most gratifying ones. "Ya, I know my team got bumped in the 2nd round. But they had 88 wins and thought they'd be a .500 club this year. Just imagine what this squad could do next season with just a few key additions..."

Those are the teams that can be really fun...

Tanking or even accusing another owner of tanking is a fairly serious issue to us and we want all of the HBD worlds to maintain competitive balance. We know that this is not 100% entirely possible, that is we employ and reward commissioners for their efforts. If you all ever find a user that you feel is tanking it is best left to us to determine that. We strongly urge you to send in a support ticket and correspond with us on the matter rather than make it a public affair. 

Let's be honest, no one wants to be called out publicly and issues such as these will get resolved much quicker when we (WIS and you) are working together to get them resolved.

But isn't the possibility of being called out publicly a deterrent?

Posted by patrickm885 on 6/28/2012 2:44:00 PM (view original):
Tanking or even accusing another owner of tanking is a fairly serious issue to us and we want all of the HBD worlds to maintain competitive balance. We know that this is not 100% entirely possible, that is we employ and reward commissioners for their efforts. If you all ever find a user that you feel is tanking it is best left to us to determine that. We strongly urge you to send in a support ticket and correspond with us on the matter rather than make it a public affair. 

Let's be honest, no one wants to be called out publicly and issues such as these will get resolved much quicker when we (WIS and you) are working together to get them resolved.

I'm glad you said this, because you directly contradicted the line of reasoning that is "it's my team, I follow the rules and I can do what I want."  New owners should be made well aware of the fact that there is an expectation of competitiveness from everyone, including the website management.  Tanking, whether passive or intentional, is against the rules and will have repercussions beyond team performance.

Posted by boogerlips on 6/28/2012 3:45:00 PM (view original):
I don't agree with Patrick. The best way to deal with tanking is in-house. If you have 32 owners on the same page you can make things fairly black/white. If you allow admin to define tanking, you're going to get a different definition every time you ask....or even when you get a written definition like the Fairplay Guidelines, they won't follow them if they don't feel like it on that particular day.

+1

Posted by tedwmoore on 6/28/2012 3:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by boogerlips on 6/28/2012 3:45:00 PM (view original):
I don't agree with Patrick. The best way to deal with tanking is in-house. If you have 32 owners on the same page you can make things fairly black/white. If you allow admin to define tanking, you're going to get a different definition every time you ask....or even when you get a written definition like the Fairplay Guidelines, they won't follow them if they don't feel like it on that particular day.

+1

It's no problem at all if you want to deal with it in your world. A lot of leagues have minimum win requirements that they enforce and we have very rarely ever been asked to intervene in those worlds. When the issue becomes a public affair on the forums nothing concrete can come out of it. We're just trying to let you know that we can help out if necessary.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/28/2012 3:19:00 PM (view original):
But isn't the possibility of being called out publicly a deterrent?

I don't think so since many owners don't visit the forums.

When we are brought in, that is when the situation can be prevented or resolved. Many owners would rather get their franchise up to standards than lose the money they have invested in the product.

Posted by patrickm885 on 6/28/2012 5:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/28/2012 3:19:00 PM (view original):
But isn't the possibility of being called out publicly a deterrent?

I don't think so since many owners don't visit the forums.

When we are brought in, that is when the situation can be prevented or resolved. Many owners would rather get their franchise up to standards than lose the money they have invested in the product.

Would have to disagree with patrick and agree with miket. While many owners may not check out the forums, enough do. And those that do are scattered throughout many of the worlds. So when an owner is hi-lighted as a tanker, that info is disseminated throughout many worlds. How many are aware of owner peio that have never had him in one of their worlds. Many-thanks to the forums.

Besides, I would say it is better to shed light on a problem(s) than to simply hide them in a corner for only a few to see and be aware of.

As an example, how many would know about the abomination of the banned owner "caracarn", without it being brought to light in the forum sections of both HBD and SimBaseball. Would he still be wreaking havoc on unsuspecting owners and worlds if he wasn't outed in the forums? I would say most definitely yes.

Posted by patrickm885 on 6/28/2012 5:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/28/2012 3:19:00 PM (view original):
But isn't the possibility of being called out publicly a deterrent?

I don't think so since many owners don't visit the forums.

When we are brought in, that is when the situation can be prevented or resolved. Many owners would rather get their franchise up to standards than lose the money they have invested in the product.

While steelers covered a lot of it, here's why I disagree:

1.  As a commish who's had to ask WifS to intervene, it's painful.   I know you have to do your due diligence but the commish better come loaded with evidence.  I know, on a few occassions, that WifS has refused on what I consider "questionable" grounds.    One in particular was "It's so late in the season, we're going to let him finish it out.   If you still want him removed at rollover, please let us know."    He was breaking the .250 rule and had been for quite some time.  So, as a commish, it's just easier to never let that guy in.   Which brings me to point #2.

2.  Once an owner is removed, the record is removed.   A commish can look at an owner's permanent record but only if he finished the season.   There's no way for us to know WifS removed an owner for starting the season 1-68.  If it's been pointed out in the forums, we know.   There's an owner complaining in this very thread that was removed from the superhero world in season 1 for tanking to start the season.     Without the forums(or maybe they sent me a sitemail), it's something I don't know.

I think there should be a couple of minor changes to the game, while it won't put a stop to tanking it will reward the teams who do not tank. Here are some changed that I can think of:
1) Draft Lottery just like the NBA, the reason it's not done in MLB right now is bc there are so few sure fire baseball players, while you don't see many misses in HBD with a top draft pick.
2) For the players that play guys out of position or hold them in the minors too long, there should be penalties, there should be a greater chance of an injury in the minors than the majors, it makes sense all the best trainers and medical personnel are in ML baseball anyways.
3) Most important there should be a reward for doing good in a season, a team like the Yankees can spend so much money, bc they make that much money by putting a competitive team on the field every year.  So why not have a variable money range based on the previous seasons performance, only based on attendance.  Not a huge difference say from 185 to 200 MIL, so teams that are competitive and at least in the wildcard hunt get the max money, while teams who are done by the all-star break get less money to spend, you can still rebuild under that model with the good draft picks but it would no longer be that you could spend no salary and have millions of extra dollars for IFAs level the playing field a little.