I like the changes. There are too many coaches that play on autopilot at coveted D1 schools. This change will either light a fire under them or push the dinosaurs out of the way so that hungrier coaches can take over. Also, this change should intensify recruiting battles dramatically, as there will assuredly be coaches desperate to land recruits that could save their jobs.

With that being said, I'm glad I'm back at D3, avoiding the eventual chaos to come. I'll happily watch it unfold from the sidelines while stuffing my face with popcorn.

Posted by buddhagamer on 5/27/2021 1:54:00 PM (view original):
Here are my thoughts:

1. Make it over a longer time span to allow rebuilds to occur (maybe previous 10 seasons).
2. Make the requirement NT victories (ex. N in the previous 10 seasons). That way, win a title == S16 appearances for 3 seasons.
3. With such a small window, EEs will have a huge impact on future success. Lose 5 EEs with only a single scholarship in R1 to open openings and you will likely fail the requirements as stated.
4. If this change goes live, I'd recommend giving the first season you switch jobs as a grace period at minimum and remove RS2 entirely (and have EEs declare immediately upon rollover). Your post-season performance now is tied to your job security so being successfully should not also penalize you as well.

Don’t necessarily mind the idea of firings but would agree with this approach and look at NT victories over a period of time like Buddha suggests vs a S16 appearance req’t. Too much randomness to screw you if you have to hit the s16 every 4 years when you may have been incredibly consistent otherwise.
Also strongly favor a grace period for new coach to give chance to rebuild.

Posted by bmillerua on 5/28/2021 1:25:00 AM (view original):

Posted by buddhagamer on 5/27/2021 1:54:00 PM (view original):
Here are my thoughts:

1. Make it over a longer time span to allow rebuilds to occur (maybe previous 10 seasons).
2. Make the requirement NT victories (ex. N in the previous 10 seasons). That way, win a title == S16 appearances for 3 seasons.
3. With such a small window, EEs will have a huge impact on future success. Lose 5 EEs with only a single scholarship in R1 to open openings and you will likely fail the requirements as stated.
4. If this change goes live, I'd recommend giving the first season you switch jobs as a grace period at minimum and remove RS2 entirely (and have EEs declare immediately upon rollover). Your post-season performance now is tied to your job security so being successfully should not also penalize you as well.

Don’t necessarily mind the idea of firings but would agree with this approach and look at NT victories over a period of time like Buddha suggests vs a S16 appearance req’t. Too much randomness to screw you if you have to hit the s16 every 4 years when you may have been incredibly consistent otherwise.
Also strongly favor a grace period for new coach to give chance to rebuild.

I also prefer the idea of an NT victory requirement in a specific window, rather than an NT round requirement.

Make it so that the firing clock does not start until the 3rd season when a coach takes a new job. Make the time frame 5 seasons instead of 4. Simple and uncomplicated.

Posted by johnsensing on 5/27/2021 3:23:00 PM (view original):
I like this change. Put some pressure on people. Four thoughts/suggestions:

1. I think it should be made more challenging for Tier I and Tier II baseline programs. Like for Tier I, an E8 every 4 years. A Tier II, a S16 every 4 years. You want to be at UNC? You'd better win. A lot.
2. If you get to an A+ (or maybe even A) current prestige at any point, you get treated like a Tier I school as long as you are at the school. Win a natty at LSU, LSU is now Tier I until you leave LSU. This would fix the baseline prestige issue -- I'm at LSU in Knight and Texas in Naismith now, I can stay there forever if all I have to do is make 1 NT every 4 years.
3. All big 6 conference schools, including B- baseline, should be in Tier III.
4. The "total rebuild" point is fair. One way to solve that is that the 4-year clock shouldn't start until the school's current prestige is at B (or maybe B-, I could be convinced either way).

I'm torn on the mindset you have here with part of your #2 statement. Telling us what YOU can do, doesn't necessarily mean it's best for the game. You're one of the best coaches this game has ever seen. I know that I am also fully capable of any type of requirements the game would set as well. But I guess it's all about what Adam/HD/WifS is trying to accomplish.

I agree with the firings, the hirings, and tightening things up. The overall concept of what lies ahead is great! But being a coach that is capable of these goals, we have a different mindset. We'll step up to face any challenge. But this is also a business and I put myself in the shoes of coaches that aren't on the level to meet these requirements and I think this all may be WAAAAY to difficult for a lot of coaches to live up to. There are coaches reading this right now that are saying "well screw that. I'm not even gonna try to get those good jobs". Knowing they'd get fired quickly. Then what? Being forced to stay in low D1? Being forced with realization they'll never compete higher because of the difficulty of never beating the big dogs and never joining the big dogs. Then it's "I quit". Or it's back to D2/D3 which may make them unhappy and it's "I quit" again.

I've always felt like in HD that it's good for everyone to have jobs to work for, and work towards. And these strict changes eliminates that for some. Sure, some of these coaches I speak of aren't getting these jobs anyways. But now they can at least keep working towards them with a goal of "maybe one day". Going forward they will soon think "I'm not even trying for that job". I'm not sure if that's what a business wants. I'm all for it. But I never forget about the little guy. Or the less fortunate. Gotta keep everyone in mind somewhat.

This post isn't really FOR or AGAINST anything. It's just food for thought.

Am I the only one who thinks these latest changes are contradictory?

You can now jump from d2 to a high "tier" D1 team very easily. Instead of before where you had to proved you understood how d1 works and how to be successful (for the most part).

Now you combine the ease of moving into the jobs with VERY difficult success requirements to just keep your head above water. I mean...huh?

So you look at the firings results I just showed yesterday for existing coaches, it's only going to be WORSE because you will have a more heavily populated d1 combined with unqualified coaches getting high level jobs. Most will get CRUSHED, get fired and then may quit playing the game altogether.

Call me crazy..but that don't make no sense y'all?

Posted by Benis on 5/28/2021 9:16:00 AM (view original):
Am I the only one who thinks these latest changes are contradictory?

You can now jump from d2 to a high "tier" D1 team very easily. Instead of before where you had to proved you understood how d1 works and how to be successful (for the most part).

Now you combine the ease of moving into the jobs with VERY difficult success requirements to just keep your head above water. I mean...huh?

So you look at the firings results I just showed yesterday for existing coaches, it's only going to be WORSE because you will have a more heavily populated d1 combined with unqualified coaches getting high level jobs. Most will get CRUSHED, get fired and then may quit playing the game altogether.

Call me crazy..but that don't make no sense y'all?

100% agree.

There are a lot of coaches that have made great points in this thread. I hope that the admins listen and adjust based on community feedback.

I feel like this a knee jerk, extreme reaction that will result in a net loss of coaches, and quality, long-time customers when they look back on this decision in 2-3 years.

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 3:48:00 AM (view original):
Make it so that the firing clock does not start until the 3rd season when a coach takes a new job. Make the time frame 5 seasons instead of 4. Simple and uncomplicated.

I am going to look at the Wooden World in D1 in which I am currently playing with the rules I suggested above that new coaches when they are first hired at a school get 7 seasons to meet the firing standards and the others get 5 seasons: This is if the rules had been in place and the possible firings were after the last completed season.

Of the 11 schools in the highest tier: Only the coach at North Carolina would have been fired. UNC has not had a NT bid in the last 9 seasons. Enough said.

Of the 18 schools in the second tier: 4 coaches would have been fired: Tennessee--15 seasons there for that coach with 0 NT appearances. Virginia--last 13 seasons only 2 NT bids and lost in 1st round both times. Boston College: the coach has been there for 7 seasons with only 1 NT bid (first season) and lost that first round game. Stanford--the closest of all the above to meeting the criteria. The last 5 seasons had 3 NT bids but never advanced to second round. Had 3 2nd round appearances in the 3 seasons preceding the last 5 but hey--you have to draw the line somewhere.

Of the 42 schools in the third tier: 2 coaches would have been fired. Oklahoma St. and Mississippi St.

So under my proposal which is more lenient than what adlorenz put out---7 coaches would have been fired and most of those would have been well deserved. I saw in a separate post that Benis checked a few worlds under the proposal that adlorenz put out that many more coaches would be fired under
that proposal which does not take account of how hard it is to take over a team in D1 and get results right away.

Posted by salag on 5/28/2021 9:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 5/28/2021 9:16:00 AM (view original):
Am I the only one who thinks these latest changes are contradictory?

You can now jump from d2 to a high "tier" D1 team very easily. Instead of before where you had to proved you understood how d1 works and how to be successful (for the most part).

Now you combine the ease of moving into the jobs with VERY difficult success requirements to just keep your head above water. I mean...huh?

So you look at the firings results I just showed yesterday for existing coaches, it's only going to be WORSE because you will have a more heavily populated d1 combined with unqualified coaches getting high level jobs. Most will get CRUSHED, get fired and then may quit playing the game altogether.

Call me crazy..but that don't make no sense y'all?

100% agree.

There are a lot of coaches that have made great points in this thread. I hope that the admins listen and adjust based on community feedback.

I feel like this a knee jerk, extreme reaction that will result in a net loss of coaches, and quality, long-time customers when they look back on this decision in 2-3 years.

Yeah - what ever happened to the idea of just using the OLD firing logic that used to be in place forever but was NEVER ENFORCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It wasn't NEARLY as extreme as this and if you got canned, everyone could agree you deserved it. The ONLY problem with it, is the ADMINS didn't enforce it because they thought it could hurt business.

So they propose to this version instead?? WTF?

I didnt have a chance to read the whole thread so maybe this has been brought up, but I can see a problem with a team that has been SIM AI controlled for multiple seasons. Who is going to want to take over that team when they know they will likely be fired in 4 seasons?

This should, hopefully lure coaches to take lesser jobs. For example coach in the IVY or WCC. Build up the conference prestige of these conferences. With the turnover that is sure to happen, makes the game more interesting.

In iba, exactly one coach in Kansas' history wouldn't have been fired under the proposed standards.

I am in favor of ramping up firings. if you want the reward of a higher baseline prestige, there should be some risk associated with it. But I'm not sure post-season success is the metric i'd use. We already have prestige in place that takes into account many elements of the entire body of work, regular and post-season success. I'd piggyback on that calculation (for example, " you must return the school to baseline prestige in six seasons") for firing logic. Just be explicit & transparent about what the prestige expectations are what can postively/negatively influence the prestige calculation.

Posted by Benis on 5/28/2021 9:16:00 AM (view original):
Am I the only one who thinks these latest changes are contradictory?

You can now jump from d2 to a high "tier" D1 team very easily. Instead of before where you had to proved you understood how d1 works and how to be successful (for the most part).

Now you combine the ease of moving into the jobs with VERY difficult success requirements to just keep your head above water. I mean...huh?

So you look at the firings results I just showed yesterday for existing coaches, it's only going to be WORSE because you will have a more heavily populated d1 combined with unqualified coaches getting high level jobs. Most will get CRUSHED, get fired and then may quit playing the game altogether.

Call me crazy..but that don't make no sense y'all?

this is the smartest take here

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 9:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 3:48:00 AM (view original):
Make it so that the firing clock does not start until the 3rd season when a coach takes a new job. Make the time frame 5 seasons instead of 4. Simple and uncomplicated.

I am going to look at the Wooden World in D1 in which I am currently playing with the rules I suggested above that new coaches when they are first hired at a school get 7 seasons to meet the firing standards and the others get 5 seasons: This is if the rules had been in place and the possible firings were after the last completed season.

Of the 11 schools in the highest tier: Only the coach at North Carolina would have been fired. UNC has not had a NT bid in the last 9 seasons. Enough said.

Of the 18 schools in the second tier: 4 coaches would have been fired: Tennessee--15 seasons there for that coach with 0 NT appearances. Virginia--last 13 seasons only 2 NT bids and lost in 1st round both times. Boston College: the coach has been there for 7 seasons with only 1 NT bid (first season) and lost that first round game. Stanford--the closest of all the above to meeting the criteria. The last 5 seasons had 3 NT bids but never advanced to second round. Had 3 2nd round appearances in the 3 seasons preceding the last 5 but hey--you have to draw the line somewhere.

Of the 42 schools in the third tier: 2 coaches would have been fired. Oklahoma St. and Mississippi St.

So under my proposal which is more lenient than what adlorenz put out---7 coaches would have been fired and most of those would have been well deserved. I saw in a separate post that Benis checked a few worlds under the proposal that adlorenz put out that many more coaches would be fired under
that proposal which does not take account of how hard it is to take over a team in D1 and get results right away.

Should have been 8 out of 71. I missed UConn in Tier 1 in Wooden. Working on Allen world right now.

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 11:10:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 9:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dunkonyou on 5/28/2021 3:48:00 AM (view original):
Make it so that the firing clock does not start until the 3rd season when a coach takes a new job. Make the time frame 5 seasons instead of 4. Simple and uncomplicated.

I am going to look at the Wooden World in D1 in which I am currently playing with the rules I suggested above that new coaches when they are first hired at a school get 7 seasons to meet the firing standards and the others get 5 seasons: This is if the rules had been in place and the possible firings were after the last completed season.

Of the 11 schools in the highest tier: Only the coach at North Carolina would have been fired. UNC has not had a NT bid in the last 9 seasons. Enough said.

Of the 18 schools in the second tier: 4 coaches would have been fired: Tennessee--15 seasons there for that coach with 0 NT appearances. Virginia--last 13 seasons only 2 NT bids and lost in 1st round both times. Boston College: the coach has been there for 7 seasons with only 1 NT bid (first season) and lost that first round game. Stanford--the closest of all the above to meeting the criteria. The last 5 seasons had 3 NT bids but never advanced to second round. Had 3 2nd round appearances in the 3 seasons preceding the last 5 but hey--you have to draw the line somewhere.

Of the 42 schools in the third tier: 2 coaches would have been fired. Oklahoma St. and Mississippi St.

So under my proposal which is more lenient than what adlorenz put out---7 coaches would have been fired and most of those would have been well deserved. I saw in a separate post that Benis checked a few worlds under the proposal that adlorenz put out that many more coaches would be fired under
that proposal which does not take account of how hard it is to take over a team in D1 and get results right away.

Should have been 8 out of 71. I missed UConn in Tier 1 in Wooden. Working on Allen world right now.

In Allen world there would have been 5 total coaches fired from the list of 71 going back currently from this season that is two days from being done.
This is using my proposal of 5 seasons instead of the 4 for the achievement parameters set out by adlorenz. Also giving a coach two seasons to get settled before the firing clock starts up in his 3rd season--so 7 seasons for new coaches to achieve the performance parameters.

Tier 1: Kentucky
Tier 2: Tennessee, Purdue, NC State.
Tier 3: Vanderbilt