Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 11:06:00 AM (view original):
bruceleefan, you didn't answer my question which is typical of some in these parts that passes for deflection. Do you believe as some Jews do (who also believe in so much more that's incorrect) that groups are intentionally blinded by our sovereign Savior to his luv for them, or, and I'm trying to throw you a bone here as compromise to you seemingly walking it back it your follow-up, that it's an excuse used by some to not come to a saving knowledge of his grace, in some cases delayed indefinitely by them and too late ?

We don’t believe because we don’t believe it.
And critical thinking and independent thinking is our cultural birthright. The majority of us DO NOT
believe that the Jewish bible is the word of God.

We have had 3000 years extra to think about it.

We also abhor the notion that Heaven is based on a belief and not the deeds in one!s life.
Your view is considered foreign and abysmal and an insulting way to imagine God.

Finally we simply do not believe that something that is written must be true. That’s why so many Jews are doctors and lawyers and scientists. Because we have a curiosity for truth and insist upon critical reasoning.

We do not go in for “blind faith “.
How could we accept Jesus if we don’t even believe in the old testament that he believed in with literal adherence.

Just so you understand that I am indulging no one and just being honest, we think that things like Noah and the ark and creation in 7 days and earth being 5800 years old and exodus and other stories are used by us for inspiration.
Literal belief is for jewish children.
The orthodox are more like you but most jews are like me. And our Orthodox do not think that heaven is based on belief of any religion.

Finally it is seen as so so arrogant to talk about Jews with your blind obedience to your bibles and look upon us as lost and evil for not surrendering our intellect and free will to believe in a form of Santa Claus.

I am being brutally honest that we do consider ourselves to be superior in not being afraid to believe as we wish without any fear of damnation.

And we consider it low class to say that we are going to hell.

Jesus was one of us but because of the way his life was exploited we think that he was the worst thing that ever happened to us and if he knew how many jews have been slaughtered or badgered and disparaged by the likes of you i’m sure he would have ran to China before he could have been followed by anyone.

You should appreciate my honesty and how I give you a glimpse into how we think.

A lot of what write has Wylie in my mind.
He is my jewish brother. And a good jewish guy.
And his wife is not jewish and naturally does not think he would go to hell.

I’ve always gone out with non jewish women.
It is not planned out that way. But I will tell you that one thing that I get out of the way in the beginning is whether they think I will go to hell if they are christian.
If they think that it would be an immediate game breaker.

One more thing while I am being honest about how we think. We think all these comments about life in christ and all the luvy dovey stuff and fellowship ect
sounds so hokey and flat out weird.

Im not speaking one iota for Wylie but this how anybody jewish that I know thinks.

Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 11:39:00 AM (view original):
With the exception of one and he actually seems to be softening somewhat lately which is appreciated, I've never hit anyone else over the head with fire and brimstone. Ask anyone. But where their mind is already made up and backed by venom, I'll tell it like it is.

I accept your no conclusion as yet on some Jewish viewpoints. You accuse me of being contradictory and going off the rails when confronted with a differing view, yet different doesn't always mean let's play nice cuz maybe they're right. In some cases they are absolutely incorrect. Yet you flip the script and it's on me and my tact that needs to change.

I won't bother asking anyone.
I'll simply watch and see.

I am not the brightest bulb on the tree so I literally have no idea what the point or question posed in that 2nd paragraph.

For the record you’ve never answered any of my questions either.

Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 12:00:00 PM (view original):
Maybe I spoke too soon.

Tradition is fine. Jesus had to start somewhere with someone(s). But you not only just said that tradition gets a forever pass, but also that an entire group of people deny Christ as their savior. I'm ok thinking you speak for yourself. Much of what Jews continue to practice is wrong and/or no longer necessary. Jesus came to not so much to abandon but fulfill tradition. Believe that or not, it's no skin off my nose. But it's still just apples. The oranges is todays counterparts who will make a choice for or against Jesus, and man is without excuse.

We don’t believe Because we don’t believe.
Not then not now not ever.
It is not a character flaw or defect in thinking
and we look down on people like you who think what you do and much much worse say what you do.

Posted by bruceleefan on 7/15/2022 12:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 11:39:00 AM (view original):
With the exception of one and he actually seems to be softening somewhat lately which is appreciated, I've never hit anyone else over the head with fire and brimstone. Ask anyone. But where their mind is already made up and backed by venom, I'll tell it like it is.

I accept your no conclusion as yet on some Jewish viewpoints. You accuse me of being contradictory and going off the rails when confronted with a differing view, yet different doesn't always mean let's play nice cuz maybe they're right. In some cases they are absolutely incorrect. Yet you flip the script and it's on me and my tact that needs to change.

I won't bother asking anyone.
I'll simply watch and see.

I am not the brightest bulb on the tree so I literally have no idea what the point or question posed in that 2nd paragraph.

For the record you’ve never answered any of my questions either.

I wrote a long post on my opinions ( opinions )
no hubris from me.
I was hoping it would generate an interesting conversation.

I’m going to Texas - God Forbid - with my ex yo see my Godson. So i won’t be around most rest of day.
She is from Vietnam and is a devout Christian.
She has never thought or believed that non christian’s go to hell. But she once pointed at a Buddhist head in my house and said that her mother would hate me - tongue in cheek.

I raised my Godchildren and was going to adopt one but could not because we were in different states.
None of us talk religion and nobody even for a second talks about membership in heaven.

It is more important to be good for the sake of being good and not waste this life about thinking all day about christ and heaven.

You live a good life and if there is anything after it will all take care of itself.

Posted by Jetson21 on 7/15/2022 11:06:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 10:57:00 AM (view original):
To me it apples/oranges. To me my faith in Christ has nothing to do before or after Christ in my life or before or after Trump came along, so I don't engage it. You would deny me that opinion; to fight for Christ for Christ's sake regardless of the surrounding chaff ?

There are certain things where taking a moral stand is imperative and this is one of the biggest this country has ever faced.

Matt - since you are telling me your POV
Let me say that being so wrapped up in your religion that you can’t even get worked up about Trump and the state of democracy says to me that you have allowed yourself to become emotionally crippled and not living life.

Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 12:23:00 PM (view original):
Where in the bible does it say a good person gets a pass ? Oh, wait; you don't believe in it except where it's convenient to cherrypick. Are we back to that ? You were doing so well for about 12 hours.

You believe your bible and think it says that no heaven if no worship.

The jewish bible does not even talk about heaven and does not say that worshipers of other faiths are bad or not worthy of God.

Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 12:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 7/15/2022 12:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 7/15/2022 11:06:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 10:57:00 AM (view original):
To me it apples/oranges. To me my faith in Christ has nothing to do before or after Christ in my life or before or after Trump came along, so I don't engage it. You would deny me that opinion; to fight for Christ for Christ's sake regardless of the surrounding chaff ?

There are certain things where taking a moral stand is imperative and this is one of the biggest this country has ever faced.

Matt - since you are telling me your POV
Let me say that being so wrapped up in your religion that you can’t even get worked up about Trump and the state of democracy says to me that you have allowed yourself to become emotionally crippled and not living life.

Or, maybe you're too caught up in inconsequentials crippled with living life and not beyond.

I've said it before : go ahead and enjoy life. Mine is just fine. But what else do I say about considering eternity ? Between the two there's no comparison in their importance or the single biggest choice you have here.

I don’t consider eternity because it is not my call and it is a waste of this life to worry about it.

Jews do not criticize others for having a different religion. And that is against our teachings and heritage.
Criticizing and complaining about non believers is your people’s teaching and heritage wherein we have a very worrisome opinion that you and your ilk are a danger to us.

Like I said - it isn’t his fault but Jesus who is said to have said that he came for the jews was the worst thing that ever happened to us.
You are but a single example of that.

I am done. I spoke about what you guys are to us and how you pose a danger.
Ive gotten as honest as I wish to.

I once said that my God is better then yours .
Without a doubt.

Im going on a trip and waiting for Uber.
Dont worry too much - you don’t - for my soul.

One last thing distilled from all of these posts.
What you and others are saying is that I have no moral right to disbelieve in the divinity of Jesus.
That what you believe in is etched in stone and that you believe in a God so violent vicious and vindictive that if some even believes in the Jewish God but not Jesus then the Jewish God and or Jesus sends you to hell.

I cannot even begin to tell you how weird and repugnant and totally antithetical to the belief in a God of goodness and kindness it could be.
Again that is why my God is better then your God.
In fact no God is better then your God.

Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 12:23:00 PM (view original):
Where in the bible does it say a good person gets a pass ? Oh, wait; you don't believe in it except where it's convenient to cherrypick. Are we back to that ? You were doing so well for about 12 hours.

We're back alright. To the Bible. Abraham (supposedly) waited over 100 years for his "legitimate" 1st born. And the story goes that He was willing to stick a knife into the boy's heart as a "sacrifice" to a God who had allowed his beloved wife to be barren for 100 years! This story is not considered fable by many believers.

Yet in order to believe in that story, you 1st have to believe that any FATHER (ANY Good Man with a beating Heart!!) would kill his beloved 1st born as a sacrifice to a (supposed) Loving God/Ussen/Creator/Yahweh/Wakan Tanka, etc.

and 2nd need to believe that humans lived for 100's of YEARS! (Methusalah supposedly lived to be 969!) and that they could copulate/procreate/Father (and Mother) a baby when hundreds of years old! That IS, on its face, ridiculous!!

Which tells me, a single thinking human, that the Bible is NOT to be taken literally!
Which means that NOT every single word in it is God's word.
There are Fables. Man's stories (History) Myths and poorly remembered events listed as fact!

Believing every word to be sacred truth is for mental midgets.
Those who require easy answers to difficult questions.

And then there's this:

"...although there's still decent people among them who tip the waitress appropriately for their kosher dining."

You post this while attempting to display Christianity??

Is it a sick joke?? Infantile humor?? If so, you'd think I'd recognize it...........I'm kinda the master of infantile humor.
It's an arrogant jab/shot! At Jews!

Talk about displaying your true nature.

And then we have the so-called devout "Christian" from North of our border who likes to chime in on OUR Politics and condemn everyone who isn't (in his wee mind) a like minded person/good "Christian" who continually rails on about the Catholic faith being some evil world dominating cult, apparently without even realizing that the Catholic Church is the original Christian faith and was (the original Church) the faithful followers of Jesus of Nazareth! The same Christ he professes to worship with such fervor.

What was it Paul cried out to the Lord about when bemoaning the state of the Church in one of his epistles...................?????
I think it was something to the effect of the nature of their STUPIDITY and lack of understanding of Christ's teachings!

But somebody around here must know better than me........... I wouldn't dare call myself a "Christian" nor deem it necessary/appropriate or even desirable.

I'm just a human in search of grace and fulfillment while here on EARTH!!
IF I manage to Walk in Beauty I believe my walk will be rewarded with Beauty.
Because I was taught that God is Love.

Goodness doesn't come from darkness.
Good cannot be a product borne of evil.
It SHOULD have been easy for actual Christians to determine the nature of one human being named Donald J. Trump.
The public information and knowledge of his adult behavior(s) was plentiful!
He has NEVER even tried to Walk in Beauty.
Just the opposite.

For those that think HE was doing good politics or "God's work"............I must question either your sanity, or your walk...........
Which is it to be?

Posted by Mwett on 7/15/2022 1:22:00 PM (view original):
Dino went back to being dino. For about a year he hinted that we wouldn't like his take on Jesus/heaven/hell, all while not showing his hand of being a Jew. You can be a Jew and not be an a-hole. You can be a Jew and claim Christ. Today dino played his hand. Tradition is fine but today is today that Christ has already fulfilled that today's Jew nor anyone needs to still hold on to that only for a time had it's place. Food is one of them. I was talking to dino. No disrespect meant toward the people as a whole or individuals who still practice from some of their heritage as long as they don't double-down and take shots at my Jesus. Most don't. This tool is only 2 in my lifetime so far off the rails literally hellbent to stay true to his colors and path, and I was once well-versed in tough street witnessing and multiple layers of front lines of defense and attacks on my beliefs. Select company, dino. Congrats !

You are an horrific person and clearly an anti semite to jews. You are a danger to us. Your ideology is what translates into violence.

Everybody here knows I’m Jewish except apparently you.

I. rested this thread to give people a platform but you think i have no right to my platform because i have no belief in the divinity of Jesus.

I believe that the vast majority of christians are good people especially the catholics i have known and always related very easily with.

You on the other hand are an absolute monster because you are drenched in the jews killed the Savior.
Ok - but in this modern world you are one of the monsters and when we say goyum we mean you.