The 52 Draft League - Rosters/Commentary Topic

steelers821
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Posted by dakjd901 on 12/31/2022 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by samuelyork93 on 12/31/2022 12:25:00 PM (view original):
Because I love the fun commentary who are some of yalls most overated players on the sim in your own opinion??
I'll start!

In no particular order

Shawn Kemp
Moses Malone(his most popular seasons anyways)
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett (his popular TWolves seasons, not his Celtic seasons)
Dwight Howard

Fight!
Wait….THE Tim Duncan is overrated to you as a 20-25th best sim option?? that means in real life you put 25 over him?
The sim definitely Isn’t real life.
12/31/2022 1:03 PM
samuelyork93
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Posted by steelers821 on 12/31/2022 1:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dakjd901 on 12/31/2022 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by samuelyork93 on 12/31/2022 12:25:00 PM (view original):
Because I love the fun commentary who are some of yalls most overated players on the sim in your own opinion??
I'll start!

In no particular order

Shawn Kemp
Moses Malone(his most popular seasons anyways)
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett (his popular TWolves seasons, not his Celtic seasons)
Dwight Howard

Fight!
Wait….THE Tim Duncan is overrated to you as a 20-25th best sim option?? that means in real life you put 25 over him?
The sim definitely Isn’t real life.
Yes let me specify... This is overatted in the SIM.

Tim Duncan is top 8 all time if you ask me!
12/31/2022 1:06 PM
dakjd901
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Posted by samuelyork93 on 12/31/2022 1:06:00 PM (view original):
Posted by steelers821 on 12/31/2022 1:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dakjd901 on 12/31/2022 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by samuelyork93 on 12/31/2022 12:25:00 PM (view original):
Because I love the fun commentary who are some of yalls most overated players on the sim in your own opinion??
I'll start!

In no particular order

Shawn Kemp
Moses Malone(his most popular seasons anyways)
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett (his popular TWolves seasons, not his Celtic seasons)
Dwight Howard

Fight!
Wait….THE Tim Duncan is overrated to you as a 20-25th best sim option?? that means in real life you put 25 over him?
The sim definitely Isn’t real life.
Yes let me specify... This is overatted in the SIM.

Tim Duncan is top 8 all time if you ask me!
Top 1 if you ask me! But then again I’m super biased because he was my favorite player growing up lol
12/31/2022 1:53 PM
longtallbrad
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Harper is pretty much the perfect backcourt mate for Lillard, and in my opinion a steal in the sixth round.
12/31/2022 3:49 PM
seapilots
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Posted by longtallbrad on 12/31/2022 3:49:00 PM (view original):
Harper is pretty much the perfect backcourt mate for Lillard, and in my opinion a steal in the sixth round.
great pick. efficient with solid 80D that is essential with Dame
12/31/2022 3:56 PM
jackedjamie
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Posted by samuelyork93 on 12/31/2022 12:25:00 PM (view original):
Because I love the fun commentary who are some of yalls most overated players on the sim in your own opinion??
I'll start!

In no particular order

Shawn Kemp
Moses Malone(his most popular seasons anyways)
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett (his popular TWolves seasons, not his Celtic seasons)
Dwight Howard

Fight!
I've never used Kemp, Moses, Howard. First time using Duncan and used Garnett in the ODL last season.(would certainly be using his SF 100% season here in the 52)
I don't know if any are overrated though...they all seem to get drafted when I think they should.

12/31/2022 4:26 PM
savoybg
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My Kidd season is 09-10, with the 55.4 eFG.

Current Roster
Name Team Pos Usage% 2pt%# 3pt%# eFG% OReb% DReb% Ast% Stl% Blk% Salary
Kevin Durant 12-13 Thunder SF 30.0 53.7 41.4 55.9 1.7 18.9 15.2 1.7 1.9 $9,785,107
Jason Kidd 09-10 Mavericks PG 14.6 41.7 42.4 55.4 1.8 14.8 31.8 2.3 0.7 $6,807,364
Spencer Haywood 69-70 Rockets PF 25.0 49.8 0.0 49.3 11.1 26.4 5.4 1.1 1.5 $10,624,406
Richaun Holmes 20-21 Kings SF 17.5 63.4 18.0 63.8 8.4 21.2 6.4 0.9 2.9 $5,296,333
Andrew Bynum 10-11 Lakers C 17.7 57.1 0.0 57.4 12.4 23.0 6.2 0.6 4.1 $3,675,140
Daniel Gafford 20-21 Bulls PF 17.2 67.3 0.0 68.4 12.3 18.1 4.2 1.5 5.3 $2,235,412
Gheorghe Muresan 95-96 Bullets C 21.2 58.2 0.0 58.4 12.8 23.6 2.9 1.0 4.6 $5,847,831
12/31/2022 8:38 PM (edited)
savoybg
Posts: 3015 (0)
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So many of the game's greatest players were not "good enough" to make this league.

Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Kobe Bryant
Reggie Miler
George Gervin
Paul Pierce
Adrian Dantley
Rick Barry
John Havlicek
Dolph Schayes
Bob Pettit
Elvin Hayes
Dan Issel
George Mikan
Bob Lanier
12/31/2022 10:06 PM
ronsouth1
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Posted by savoybg on 12/31/2022 10:07:00 PM (view original):
So many of the game's greatest players were not "good enough" to make this league.

Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Kobe Bryant
Reggie Miler
George Gervin
Paul Pierce
Adrian Dantley
Rick Barry
John Havlicek
Dolph Schayes
Bob Pettit
Elvin Hayes
Dan Issel
George Mikan
Bob Lanier
its the limted budget and the nature of the sim league software. as much as i like those players myself the sim does not equalize play for all players across various decades. i use some of those players from time to time and within varius budget constraints.it is a big database.
12/31/2022 10:27 PM
savoybg
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Posted by ronsouth1 on 12/31/2022 10:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by savoybg on 12/31/2022 10:07:00 PM (view original):
So many of the game's greatest players were not "good enough" to make this league.

Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Kobe Bryant
Reggie Miler
George Gervin
Paul Pierce
Adrian Dantley
Rick Barry
John Havlicek
Dolph Schayes
Bob Pettit
Elvin Hayes
Dan Issel
George Mikan
Bob Lanier
its the limted budget and the nature of the sim league software. as much as i like those players myself the sim does not equalize play for all players across various decades. i use some of those players from time to time and within varius budget constraints.it is a big database.
Yes, most of the PGs, SGs and SFs from the past have been hurt by the 3 point shot in terms of competing with modern players. An eFG of even 50% is very rare among players from before the mid-70s at least. Even if the sim made a certain player a 35% shooter from 3, he is not gonna take enough 3's for that to matter very much. Since there were no threes to worry about back then, the big men also suffered offensively because the lane was much more cluttered back then. Much harder to dominate inside when there are usually at least 3 defenders in the lane.

That's also the reason that blocked shots have dwindled so much in recent years. There are so many nearly unblockable 3 pointers taken that there are far fewer inside shots taken where most of the blocks used to occur.

Players shooting percentages should be adjusted based on above or below average for that year or era, rather than just straight raw numbers. A guy likie Jerry Lucas who was shooting over 50% in the 60s should be a better percentage shooter than modern big men who shoot that same raw numbers.

Lucas shot .527 from the field as a rookie in 1964, averaging 17.7 pts a game. The league shot .433 that season. This season the league is shooting .544 on 2 pointers. So Lucas' .527 that was 22% above league average in 1964 would be below league average now. A player now would have to shoot 66% on twos to match what Lucas did in 1964. There are some players doing that, but not many, and very few if any who are averaging 17.7 pts per game.

PLUS

Lucas was very adept at making 28 foot set shots, which he did a lot when he was on the Knicks. Since back then it only counted as making a 2 pointer, even if he shot 44% it would be a negative on a 2 pointer in like 1972. So if there had been 3 pointers in Lucas' day, he would have been one of the best 2 point shooters.

IMO the sim should determine a player's normalized value based on how good or bad they were compared to the average player of their day. That's what Win Shares does. A 15 win share player in 1964 should be roughly as valuable as a 15 win share player now, but it doesn't work that way in the sim.
12/31/2022 11:55 PM (edited)
samuelyork93
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I think the site could at least run a beta on something like that. Just normalize every season to the most recent one. But we thought Chamberlain was broken before. And oh god imagine Kareem
1/1/2023 12:41 AM
savoybg
Posts: 3015 (0)
All Star
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It takes a lot of the "What If" out of things when most of the best players are from recent times. I think that Bill Russell is vastly overrated historically and all of his teammates are very underrated, but it's even worse in the sim where Russell is not better than many modern guys defensively, and far worse than most modern big men offensively. I am surprised that he was even drafted in this league. He is a top rebounder, but there are several modern guys around the same level as rebounders.

Based on my formula of Career Win Shares, plue best 7 seasons of win shares, divided by 2, and then adding in career Playoffs PER, Russell is the 7th most valuable center ever, but he's nowhere near that in the sim. Here are my rankings:

Kareem - 228.52
Wilt - 222.13
Admiral - 170.16
Shaq - 167.89
Gilmore - 164.84
Moses - 157.55
Russell - 152.61
Olajuwon - 150.08
Issel - 138.40
Mikan - 137.19
Dwight Howard - 132.95
Parish - 126.02
Bellamy - 125.62
Ewing - 123.31
Lanier - 117.52
Mutombo - 110.53
Beaty - 109.12
Jokic - 107.61
Ed Macauley - 107.51
Bosh - 105.77
Johnston - 105.65
Unseld - 105.60
Sikma - 104.59
Gobert - 103.56
McAdoo - 102.88
Laimbeer - 101.33
DeAndre Jordan - 99.46
Horford - 99.18
Chandler - 97.40
Mourning - 96.15
Ben Wallace - 96.10
Cowens - 94.34
Divac - 92.00
Willis Reed - 89.79
Marc Gasol - 89.68
Larry Foust - 88.42
Marcus Camby - 82.27
Thurmond - 80.15

Of course the guys here who are still playing will continue to accumulate value and move up the list. Jokic should be top 10 easily when he retires.

1/1/2023 1:30 AM
Midge
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That’s all very nice, but the five greatest players of all time are:

1) Mike Newlin
2) Kevin Durant
3) Alvan Adams
4) John Havlicek
5) Kevin Porter

I think we can all agree to this.
1/1/2023 3:15 AM
steelers821
Posts: 2997 (2)
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Robertson and pierce almost always get drafted in this league. Robertson went 17 and 77 the last two years. He just costs so much that if you don’t have a plan to built around him you aren’t going to make the minutes and salary work
1/1/2023 9:36 AM
beachhouse
Posts: 2413 (0)
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24 22 238 1
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Usage FG% 3PT% EFG% Oreb% Dreb% Ast%
Deron Williams 07-08 Jazz PG 23.4 53.0 39.3 54.4 1.3 8.0 34.2 $7,599,447
Charlie Ward 97-98 Knicks PG 15.0 51.3 37.7 53.4 1.5 11.8 27.9 $4,961,764
Elton Brand 06-07 Clippers PF 24.7 53.0 100.0 53.3 10.1 17.6 10.6 $8,867,478
Shawn Kemp 95-96 SuperSonics PF 26.2 56.1 41.3 56.4 12.5 25.8 8.5 $7,918,870
Nikola Jokic 21-22 Nuggets C 31.9 64.0 33.6 62.0 9.0 34.2 27.3 $8,239,750
Jose Calderon 07-08 Raptors PG 17.1 54.9 42.7 57.5 1.5 9.1 34.8 $5,724,419
Charlie Edge 73-74 Tams SF 17.7 50.1 0.0 50.0 12.8 20.4 4.2 $4,328,811

Minutes
17946

Effective FG%
55.9

FT%
77.6%

Team D
72.6

1/1/2023 12:41 PM
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