Well this is an interesting question that hasn't come up before.

The acceptable way to see who you get on your roster is who you get when you load the team as a team, not when you load them individually from a blank screen.

When you load the 76 Indians Rico Carty shows up as a 1B. When you load him from a blank screen he shows up as a utility.

To my interpretation of the rules, this means he should be allowed as a 1B on the final roster. Have others thought of this? I didn't realize players were listed differently. When I check the teams before starting the league, I use the players as they're loaded as a team, not individually from a blank screen.

Other opinions are encouraged, and I think calhoop should be able to change his pick if others agree with my interpretation.

Posted by Beernoser on 7/26/2023 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Well this is an interesting question that hasn't come up before.

The acceptable way to see who you get on your roster is who you get when you load the team as a team, not when you load them individually from a blank screen.

When you load the 76 Indians Rico Carty shows up as a 1B. When you load him from a blank screen he shows up as a utility.

To my interpretation of the rules, this means he should be allowed as a 1B on the final roster. Have others thought of this? I didn't realize players were listed differently. When I check the teams before starting the league, I use the players as they're loaded as a team, not individually from a blank screen.

Other opinions are encouraged, and I think calhoop should be able to change his pick if others agree with my interpretation.

By my understanding of the rules, Rico Carty CAN be used as a 1B since he appears as such when you load as a team.
I definitely support calhoop getting another pick so long as it is chosen quickly.

It's Beernoser's league and I am okay with whatever he decides.

A couple of drafts ago, I was given the 1974 Royals which loaded Hal McRae as an OF. He is actually a DH so I did not use him. I guess I could have.

No big deal. I will keep the 1976 Indians as my team for vilefileman

"However on your final 25 man roster you must have exactly two players who have a primary position at catcher, 2 1B, 2 2B, 2 3B, 2 shortstops, 5 outfielders and 10 pitchers."

The rules show this. Carty's primary position is DH. I fail to see how he is eligible under this rule.

Thanks calhoop

In this league it's so important that we're all looking at rosters the same way and I chose how the roster is loaded as a team, so we need to keep that rule.

I was unaware of cases like Carty, but we should still go by how he's listed when rostered as a team.

Redcped -- because his primary position is established by how he appears when you load him as part of the team, not by how he's listed when loaded as an individual from a blank screen.

That's how I interpret this odd situation that I previously didn't know existed.

Posted by Beernoser on 7/26/2023 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Well this is an interesting question that hasn't come up before.

The acceptable way to see who you get on your roster is who you get when you load the team as a team, not when you load them individually from a blank screen.

When you load the 76 Indians Rico Carty shows up as a 1B. When you load him from a blank screen he shows up as a utility.

To my interpretation of the rules, this means he should be allowed as a 1B on the final roster. Have others thought of this? I didn't realize players were listed differently. When I check the teams before starting the league, I use the players as they're loaded as a team, not individually from a blank screen.

Other opinions are encouraged, and I think calhoop should be able to change his pick if others agree with my interpretation.

I'd say you get to use Carty, since the official way to determine eligibility is by loading the entire team from the Draft Center.

That's what I've been using to determine the primary position of every player, and I haven't actually tried loading them individually from a blank page. So it seems possible that there could be other players who load at one position in the team context but have a different 'primary' position when loaded individually. That wouldn't just apply to a DH case, but could mean that a player who loads at SS is 'primary' at 2B when loaded individually. Unless you've actually tried it for each individual player, it seems impossible to know this for certain.

I think that it is an undue burden to 'test' every player who qualifies at multiple positions by loading them individually to 'confirm' that they are listed at the same primary position as they appeared when you loaded the entire team. For this reason, I think we need to trust the position they show as primary in the team context as the final judgment.

Posted by Beernoser on 7/26/2023 12:44:00 PM (view original):
Redcped -- because his primary position is established by how he appears when you load him as part of the team, not by how he's listed when loaded as an individual from a blank screen.

That's how I interpret this odd situation that I previously didn't know existed.

Fair enough. As long as we are all on the same page.

I'm finding a few guys who now qualify by this rule, in addition to Carty.

Hal McRae, Royals, OF
Hank Aaron, Brewers, OF
Tom Grieve, Rangers, OF
Bill Melton, Angels, 1B

Interesting. Carty played 12 games at 1B and shows up as a 1B as noted above. On my 2nd round screwed team, the '76 Brewers. Bernie Carbo and Mike Hegan show up as Util players. However, Carbo played 34 games in the OF and Hegan played 20. There are definitely some inconsistencies with how WIS determines position assignments.

It may not always be fair (like in my case with the Brewers), but I think we should stick with the rule that position is determined based on how it is assigned when the team is loaded. The best part of this theme is trying to pick a team that screws your assigned owner the most. Requiring teams to carry players with specific position assignments and excluding the "Util" players from the eligibility is part of the fun and strategy.

I don't think we should make this modification for the v6 season, but I would suggest having a uniform way to make all the UTIL/DH players eligible (who load with a team) starting with v7. Maybe we should just agree they always count as a OF slot, where they will have less of an effect on roster balancing. They could still play wherever WIS thinks they are eligble beyond the OF - just treat as OF for roster purposes.

They were not really an issue in the early years, but in the 1970s they eat a considerable number of a team's total AB, so they are alread skewing the process to a major extent.

Posted by Beernoser on 7/26/2023 12:44:00 PM (view original):
Redcped -- because his primary position is established by how he appears when you load him as part of the team, not by how he's listed when loaded as an individual from a blank screen.

That's how I interpret this odd situation that I previously didn't know existed.

The rule does say primary position when loaded as a team.

Posted by midknight on 7/26/2023 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Interesting. Carty played 12 games at 1B and shows up as a 1B as noted above. On my 2nd round screwed team, the '76 Brewers. Bernie Carbo and Mike Hegan show up as Util players. However, Carbo played 34 games in the OF and Hegan played 20. There are definitely some inconsistencies with how WIS determines position assignments.

It may not always be fair (like in my case with the Brewers), but I think we should stick with the rule that position is determined based on how it is assigned when the team is loaded. The best part of this theme is trying to pick a team that screws your assigned owner the most. Requiring teams to carry players with specific position assignments and excluding the "Util" players from the eligibility is part of the fun and strategy.

When I picked the Brewers for you, I was excluding Hegan and Carbo for eligibility. I hadn't noticed until now that Aaron was listed as an OF when loaded, so you do get him. I mean, assuming you want a very old slugger who can't field or run, or hit homers anymore really.

Once the draft is over we typically have a wait while everyone rosters their team and I check them all.

That's a good time to decide what we do for future iterations of the league.

Posted by redcped on 7/26/2023 1:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by midknight on 7/26/2023 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Interesting. Carty played 12 games at 1B and shows up as a 1B as noted above. On my 2nd round screwed team, the '76 Brewers. Bernie Carbo and Mike Hegan show up as Util players. However, Carbo played 34 games in the OF and Hegan played 20. There are definitely some inconsistencies with how WIS determines position assignments.

It may not always be fair (like in my case with the Brewers), but I think we should stick with the rule that position is determined based on how it is assigned when the team is loaded. The best part of this theme is trying to pick a team that screws your assigned owner the most. Requiring teams to carry players with specific position assignments and excluding the "Util" players from the eligibility is part of the fun and strategy.

When I picked the Brewers for you, I was excluding Hegan and Carbo for eligibility. I hadn't noticed until now that Aaron was listed as an OF when loaded, so you do get him. I mean, assuming you want a very old slugger who can't field or run, or hit homers anymore really.

Yep, they were a great screw pick and it shows how the WIS logic is a bit odd. "Hammering Hank" (while wielding his mighty Playskool wooden mallet in '76) played 1 game in the OF and 84 as DH/PH.