That makes about as much sense as "I spit on Genghis Khan with the power of a thousand thunderstorms"!

WTF???

It's a valid gripe. and a common gripe, and an old gripe, and one we've heard (and I agree with) many times before. Baseball lowered the mound in 1968 to make it easier for the batter. It changed the game, but baseball players pre-1968 still get used in the baseball SIM. Imagine if no one drafted Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, or Mickey Mantle because their stats didn't translate to today's game. But that is what has happened to WIS basketball. WIS just hasn't adjusted strongly enough for the differences between basketball eras, the addition of the 3 point line being a good example. And what they've done to Bill Russell is a crime, they've stripped him of his strengths because he was too dominant in the early SIM. This is the list of leaders for NBA single season for total rebounds. The top 18 in the history of the NBA is either Bill or Wilt. Rodman's best year comes in at 28, yet his DREB% in WIS is higher than either Bill or Wilt in any of these seasons. (no player in the last 20 years makes the list until #80)

Rank	Player	TRB	Season
1.	Wilt Chamberlain*	2149	1960-61
2.	Wilt Chamberlain*	2052	1961-62
3.	Wilt Chamberlain*	1957	1966-67
4.	Wilt Chamberlain*	1952	1967-68
5.	Wilt Chamberlain*	1946	1962-63
6.	Wilt Chamberlain*	1943	1965-66
7.	Wilt Chamberlain*	1941	1959-60
8.	Bill Russell*	1930	1963-64
9.	Bill Russell*	1878	1964-65
10.	Bill Russell*	1868	1960-61
11.	Bill Russell*	1843	1962-63
12.	Bill Russell*	1790	1961-62
13.	Wilt Chamberlain*	1787	1963-64
14.	Bill Russell*	1779	1965-66
15.	Bill Russell*	1778	1959-60
16.	Wilt Chamberlain*	1712	1968-69
17.	Bill Russell*	1700	1966-67
18.	Wilt Chamberlain*	1673	1964-65

Thanks pexetera....finally a voice of reason comes from the wilderness to see my point.

Funny, but I've never heard that gripe from anyone other than me. I just see everyone happily drafting Bogut, Harkless, Harrell, and all the other usually drafted players who couldn't hold Elgin Baylor/Bob Pettit/Bob Cousy or Cliff Hagan's jock strap; Well, if that is a long historical WIS gripe, then add me to the list!

The hilarious thing is that we were emphasizing up tempo and shooting years before the NBA followed the trend. It's as if Daryl Morey was on WIS one day and was like, "hey, what if we just scored 125 points every game and attempted 1000 threes in a season?"

The truth is, amerk, that the rules have changed the stats. 99-90 games aren't possible anymore. Shooters are better. No one thought shooters could be this good; since they are, you can score 35 more points per game. As much as I want to romanticize the 90's Knicks (and they were great for their era), they would pretty much be the 19-20 Spurs in today's rules. This is one where you can't zag when the rest of the league zigs, or you get left in the dust.

fun fact: the 1989 Bad Boy Detroit Pistons played at about the same pace as D'Antoni's '7 second or less' Suns and yet had the lowest pace factor in the association - the 60s guys played even faster than that

Owner	Pts	Last
pexetera	114	3
benhoidal	113	4
dBKC	110	4
kinoa1	107	3
mptrey	104	1
dh555	102	3
copernicus	101	1
jcred5	96	3
tarheel1991	95	5
ysw128	88	2
20ks	88	2
ashamael	86	4
robusk	85	1
jpevans31	85	2
goetz93	83	3
24kpyrite	83	2
gerryred	81	2
dskantor	81	4
jhsukow	80	2
samuelyork93	74	2
pharrop	70	1
bds9992	65	2
longtallbrad	56	1
amerk1180	53	3

Posted by amerk1180 on 6/29/2020 2:33:00 AM (view original):
Thanks pexetera....finally a voice of reason comes from the wilderness to see my point.

Funny, but I've never heard that gripe from anyone other than me. I just see everyone happily drafting Bogut, Harkless, Harrell, and all the other usually drafted players who couldn't hold Elgin Baylor/Bob Pettit/Bob Cousy or Cliff Hagan's jock strap; Well, if that is a long historical WIS gripe, then add me to the list!

You haven't read the forums much over the years then. Most of us are just resigned to what we have at this point, with the occasional joke about Sim-Russell.

Yeah I completely agree with you Amerk, we’ve all been saying the same thing for a while - I was just trying to say that at least in this 5-season format it negates SOME of that. Obviously not all of it, but it does make the old guys more usable than in ODL/DH52. The Logo and Cowens are both big parts of my team.

But yes, they definitely need to do era-adjusted eFG% and also make Russell a 90 or 100 every season.

Pex there are real problems with Russell (defense, steals/blocks, and shooting normalization) but I don’t really see rebounding as one of them. Russell’s huge rebounding totals are because he played a ton of minutes in an era with crazy high pace and a ton of missed shots (same for Chamberlain). There may be reasons to doubt the accuracy of the rebounding % stats from pre-1975 or so - which have to do with limited stat-keeping from back then - but I don’t think Russell’s rebounding % is necessarily off.

yea, I understand totals don't necessarily translate to percentages, I was more using the chart for effect. Bill does have several years where DREB are at or above 30% which is not weak by any stretch, but I'm pretty sure his DREB% are still off by about 10%. Didn't they use his actual numbers at one time, and then adjust them downward because he was getting used too much in the open leagues? That's a question for the really old timers, I've only been around since the end of '07. I don't have the exact figures, but I think he actually got closer to 40% of available rebounds several years.

I think we all agree the biggest issue with Bill is his defense ratings, nor do I believe he would shoot 10% under Rodman in the paint. At 5'9" 215 I think he'd probably get used as a PF in today's league, very much like a Rodman but without the option to play him at SF. And I think he'd fit nicely into today's game too, I can see him replacing Draymond on the Warriors death squad no problem, or replacing Clint Capela on the Rockets almost championship teams no problem. And he wouldn't be shooting 43% in today's league with today's offenses and rules. He would at least be an average or above average shooter for his position.

As dominating as Wilt is in the SIM, he should be even more dominant if the SIM used his actual rebound and block percentages (which they don't have). and Bill and Wilt would run 300 pound Shaq to death. ultimately, I think we're all in agreement. Wilt transcends any era, and guys like Bill Russell and Bob Pettit wouldn't be untouchable. And shooters like Bob McAdoo and Jerry Lucas would fit right in with Dirk and the other shooting big men.

And there's a big difference between Jerry West and Gail Goodrich in the SIM. I can draft and use the Logo. Goodrich doesn't get drafted. Jerry makes my all-time Lakers squad. Goodrich does not. In fact, I'd take Jerry West over Kobe Bryant in a draft. wouldn't you? Which I think was dBKC's point for this draft. Since we're not all building Curry/Lebron/Rodman squads... guys like the Logo with a string of 5 productive years can add value.. and so could Russell if only 24k knew what the hell he was doing. (j/k 24k)

Owner	Pts	Last
pexetera	117	3
benhoidal	117	4
dBKC	113	3
kinoa1	111	4
mptrey	107	3
dh555	105	3
copernicus	105	4
jcred5	100	4
tarheel1991	97	2
20ks	91	3
ysw128	90	2
jpevans31	89	4
ashamael	87	1
robusk	86	1
goetz93	85	2
gerryred	84	3
24kpyrite	84	1
dskantor	83	2
jhsukow	82	2
samuelyork93	76	2
pharrop	73	3
bds9992	67	2
longtallbrad	57	1
amerk1180	54	1

Right now, I’m in 19th place. I also am a win away from having three teams in the playoffs.

how many people have all 5 in realistic striking distance?

1st seed, 3rd seed, 4th seed, 1st seed, 3rd seed

I’m afraid to see what Pex’s looks like though

Posted by jhsukow on 6/29/2020 3:53:00 PM (view original):
Right now, I’m in 19th place. I also am a win away from having three teams in the playoffs.

how many people have all 5 in realistic striking distance?

pex, dB, mptrey, and I currently all have 5 playoff teams. I think at least a few owners have 4.

I have 4 in and the 5th one is only 1 game out. But many of them are very tight right now. Such a long way to go.