Borbon

Projects to have 61-84 splits, GB ratio of 73, and 80 & 81 first 2 pitches.

He should get real close to those #'s as he has 6 years to grow...but there's that pesky 47 control.

If he hits all those projections, can he still be pretty effective with the 47 control?

he could do okay as a back-of-the-rotation guy. i wouldnt bank on him for much more than that though.

also, i highly doubt he'll reach those projections. hes only got one more year of any substantial growth.

Agree with stiller on his projections, although I doubt he will ever make a reasonable starting pitcher due to his control. You could use him to fill roster space as long A or mopup, but when he retires, he's likely to have a WHIP north of 1.60.

HBD pitchers can sometimes get by with a sub-60 rating vs. LH or RH hitting, but it's much more difficult to compensate for poor control.

Dwight Johnson has 207 career wins in a quality world (and counting) with 55 control, an 80+ RH split and two 80+ pitches.

Borbon isn't that good, but that's because he has really poor VEL, AS and AA in combination with his below average control. That said, I'd give this guy a shot at the bottom of the rotation after two more partial seasons in the minors with good coaching to see if you can get that CON rating as high as it will go.

Quote: Originally Posted By soxfan121 on 3/24/2010Dwight Johnson has 207 career wins in a quality world (and counting) with 55 control, an 80+ RH split and two 80+ pitches.

Borbon isn't that good, but that's because he has really poor VEL, AS & AA in combination with his below average control. That said, I'd give this guy a shot at the bottom of the rotation after two more partial seasons in the minors with good coaching to see if you can get that CON rating as high as it will go.

Why are you mentioning AS and AA? That have no influence on pitching ability. They are defensive ratings only.

Similar question, regarding Mac Pote.

He projects to 87 control, 86 velocity, 76 GB ratio, 96 1st pitch, 79 second pitch.

But those splits project to 63 vsL, 41 vsR.

Can he overcome the splits?

Quote: Originally posted by amorak on 3/24/2010Similar question, regarding Mac Pote. He projects to 87 control, 86 velocity, 76 GB ratio, 96 1st pitch, 79 second pitch. But those splits project to 63 vsL, 41 vsR. Can he overcome the splits?

Mac will get above 41 vs RH.

I think he's worth a tryout at the ML level once he has developed. Don't expect too much, but he could be a viable back-of-the-rotation inning eater.

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So because it doesn't fit the color scheme it can't have effect?

Sure, it's implied but it doesn't make any sense. I see a pretty strong correlation between AS and VEL and between AA and CON. I've yet to see a guy who has a VEL rating of 99 and an AS of 1 or vice versa and guys with high CON tend to have high AA and vice versa.

My mind just can't buy that there's one set of ratings, relating to a guy's arm, that are used only when pitching and another only when he's throwing to first base on a pickoff throw. I've always thought that AS and AA measured the strength of the player's arm and the form (or mechanics) of his throwing motion.

But if anyone has anything more than a color chart and its implications, I'd love to be proved wrong.

Why would you expect AA and AS to effect how well a guy pitches? There are specific ratings for those things, namely Control and Velocity.

This is from the help section that you obviously didn't bother to read.

Arm Strength plays a key role in what position a player can handle. After all, weak arms don't end up on the side of the infield, behind the plate or in right field.

Velocity determines how fast the player can throw a pitch.

Arm Accuracy is used in every fielding play that involves a throw.

Control indicates how successful a pitcher is at locating his pitches.

Is that enough to prove you wrong?

Please don't attempt to counter soxfan's argument with facts!

sox- some of the ratings do seem to be tied to other ratings, but that doesn't mean that both ratings factor into a particular play. For example, speed and range do seem to be tied together in some way. The system seems to recognize that it shouldn't generate many players with 95 speed and 8 range, for example. Players with higher speed tend to have higher range (as you might expect), and vice versa. However, I would still assume that in the field, "range" is the only rating that matters, and on the bases, "speed" is the only rating of the two that matters. However, based on this, if you were so inclined, you could probably find some statistical correlation between "range" and base stealing. That still wouldn't mean that looking for guys with good range will help you find base stealers, because correlation does not equal causation.

Quote: Originally posted by gjello10 on 3/24/2010sox- some of the ratings do seem to be tied to other ratings, but that doesn't mean that both ratings factor into a particular play.  For example, speed and range do seem to be tied together in some way.  The system seems to recognize that it shouldn't generate many players with 95 speed and 8 range, for example.  Players with higher speed tend to have higher range (as you might expect), and vice versa.  However, I would still assume that in the field, "range" is the only rating that matters, and on the bases, "speed" is the only rating of the two that matters.  However, based on this, if you were so inclined, you could probably find some statistical correlation between "range" and base stealing.  That still wouldn't mean that looking for guys with good range will help you find base stealers, because correlation does not equal causation.

gjello, I'm not suggesting that AS/AA affect pitching performance - I'm saying that I consider those ratings when looking at a pitcher's control/velocity, especially when guessing how the guy's ratings will develop. The range/speed example is a good one.

tec, I'm not arguing with "facts" - I'm arguing with the assumptions and "implications" being drawn from color coding and the help screens.

And, like I said, I'd love to see something that contradicts my assumption that AS/AA has some unknown, unquantifiable, purely speculative effect on a pitcher's CON/VEL ratings and their development.

OK, resume the "IN YOUR FACE!" dance, tec.

I've opened up a ticket to see if ADMIN will shed any light on this. As soon as I get a response, I'll post it.