Okay -- there's been a lot of talk about how it's become impossible to win at DI if you're not an elite BCS school.  Initially I dismissed these claims as whining; but as I see coaches I respect take up the cause, and watch more and more coaches drop out of non-competitive BCS situations, I have to consider that it may indeed be an issue.  What I'm hearing most is: "The hardest thing to do now in HD is turn around a doormat BCS school."

Still, I don't think it's true.  I think it takes a very good coach, but that's as it should be.  So I'm proposing an experiment: I don't have the inclination to start a new DIII team and spend 15 seasons getting to a C- BCS school -- but I'd like to take one over, stating that I believe I can have it competitive in 5 seasons, or contending for a NC in 7. 

Why me?  Well, the issue isn't whether the best coaches in the world (lostmyth, OR, daalter, gil, etc) can do it -- they can.  And it's not whether a mediocre coach can do it -- they shouldn't.  But if a very good coach can do it, I submit that HD doesn't have a problem -- just a challenging game that requires work and talent to succeed.  And if he can't -- well, then perhaps there really is a problem detrimental to the long-term health of HD.  As someone who has arguably been one of the top coaches in Smith over the long haul, I think I fit that bill.

So what I'd like to do is -- if anyone is preparing to leave a lousy BCS school: let me take it over.  If you have credits left and figured you'd just ride it out in DII or III, I'll be happy to send you a check for the equivalent amount.  Now, I know giving away teams/IDs has been illegal in the past, but I'll submit to seble that this is purely for experimental purposes, and will do it with the promise of leaving the program in 5 (or 7) seasons regardless of the outcome, and retiring that ID in that world.  Certainly, there are a few of these "experiments" organically occurring already -- Clone77 at C- Iowa State in Smith being the only one I know.  But I'd like to put in the work and report the results here in the forums, as a public version to provide real-life evidence for or against what seems to me to be the most significant question to face HD in some time. 

So, if anyone is interested, please site-mail me.  Thanks.

Jeff, I think this is a really good idea.  As you're probably aware, the ACC in Smith just lost yet another human coach - we currently stand at five AI schools (FSU, NCSt, Va, VaTech, and Wake), and I'm afraid no one is going to try to come in and make any of them competitive.  And, of course, you just lost a good coach at South Carolina in similar circumstances.

So if you have more than one coach contact you about this to let you take over a program, let me know - I'd be willing to try the same thing you're suggesting here.  My only restriction is that I can't really handle a two-games-per-day world, and that if I take over a program in Rupp or Smith then it can't be one that would potentially compete with Texas or Maryland for local recruits.

I got sick and tired of hearing the same two arguments: 1) Mid-Majors cant compete; 2) Rebuild Big 6 schools cant compete.

So I took Villanova in Tark - C+ last year when I signed up and BYU in Phelan D+ this year when I signed up. After recruiting twice in Tark and once in Phelan I'm starting to think that it will be much easier to build up a midmajor than a rebuild Big 6. If this thread stays active Ill keep everyone posted.

I have always thought rebuilds in the big 6 are hardest.  No easy way to the NT via the CT for a young team that is improving a lot over the course of the season, and hard to win enough games with the big boys on the schedule.

Thanks, davis -- I'll definitely let you know.  The Big 12 just lost 2 more too -- it's hard to believe people aren't jumping at the chance to give them a try, but maybe you and I are too old and out of touch to realize how hard a job it is :)

And I agree -- getting a mid-major to respectability shouldn't be too hard; in an age of SIMAI-filled conferences, you might only play 3 games a year you have a chance to lose, and can hover around a B- or B forever.  But if it's as impossible as many say to turn a BCS school around, that could actually turn out to be a big problem for HD.  I remain skeptical, but I'd like to find out.

i've been petrified about dropping below the B- barrier in a big 6 conference ever since i got to GTown in iba. quick summary of my 4 seasons there:

1. B prestige; recruited 6 freshmen & #9 recruiting class; PIT final 4
2. B+ prestige; basically 1 bad recruit and was ok to good on the other 3; .500 record
3. B- prestige; blew recruiting and didnt fill 1 schollie; 2nd round NT
4. B prestige; blew recruiting and filled 2 schollies with one ok and one bad juco jrs; 2nd round NT

since Gtown is apparently A- baseline, i think i might make it to A- after the season. if i do, i will have 6 open scholarships and i might decide to cut 2 other players if i can afford to. A- prestige is probably JUST at the line where you start to get the pick-of-the-litter in recruits to some degree, and the idea is i'll be able to maintain it to some degree...if i mess up these recruiting periods tho, i'll probably have turned gtown into a dump.

Posted by mmt0315 on 12/6/2010 2:30:00 PM (view original):
I got sick and tired of hearing the same two arguments: 1) Mid-Majors cant compete; 2) Rebuild Big 6 schools cant compete.

So I took Villanova in Tark - C+ last year when I signed up and BYU in Phelan D+ this year when I signed up. After recruiting twice in Tark and once in Phelan I'm starting to think that it will be much easier to build up a midmajor than a rebuild Big 6. If this thread stays active Ill keep everyone posted.

mmt all wrong - it is not that mid majors can't compete, competing got harder, not impossible.  Same with big 6 schools, although to a lesser extent, since big 6 conferences earn so much post season money.

I'm going to stick with my Smith DIII team for one more season before I jump back to DI. Given how the hiring process currently works I project I'll be eligible for a team in the C prestige range so I'll also update this thread with my results.

Assuming the BC coach doesn't up and quit and I get my old job back, that is

i think it has gotten a lot harder for a mid major to win a championship. however, with the limited number of elite players, i would guess there are not more than 10 or 20 schools out of competition range.

i think the importance of your system has also went up a lot (i guess i always think that, but to me, that is a steady trend since potential first came into being). if you are a low end big 6 school trying to run the press, well, good luck, you sure as hell are gonna need it! to me, zone should almost become the ubiquitous offense of d1 schools who don't hope to win a championship in the near future but want to compete, or to get a better job. you can easily float 2 walkons every single season, and you get more out of your top players. that gives you more money and your purchases go further.

I think it's a definite challenge to take over a BCS school with C/C+ or worse prestige in a Big 6 conf. that's ALSO  full/nearly full w/human coaches.  And if your school has a B baseline prestige (or worse) - as opposed to an A- or better baseline -  then that could be the worst case.  Not impossible, but certainly challenging.  You have to schedule lightly in NC and catch some breaks in recruiting in the first few years to get a foundation of success and some "easy" RPI improvement (imo)

I took over a C+ Wake Forest in Rupp and it took me 3 seasons to rise above that C+ (we've gone C+, C+, C+, B-, B+, A- in my 6 full seasons there).  However, starting that uphill climb these days given the recruiting changes would certainly be a task, but it would be a very rewarding one if you can make it work and a very telling one if you can't.  I may have a chance to start this process soon myself with my other ID. 

jeff, if you carry through and find an experimental team, please give periodic updates on this thread so we can all monitor the results. 

So feel like I am doing this already without even trying. I'm not even as good of a coach as any posted here but WIS has given me a status so I will take it. In my VT job I was at ETSU before I took that school a long way and moved up to VT a B baseline. I have hovered there. Mostly due to poor recruiting strategy. My frontcourt/backcourt upperclassman to underclassmen breakdown has been poor. What has happened I fear is that my frontcourt players will EE and I will be in bad shape next year. But, I have been able to get decent talent. The issue I feel with mid-baseline prestige teams is that after a big season you can get the talent but they leave and you are back to square one. Most of this is my own fault with position balance. My GT team is another story. They are A- baseline. I took them over as a B- and went down before I went up. I'm destined to go back down. But with EEs it may be even worse. I really am stRting to feel that the best way to build is to have average talent that doesn't leave for the first 5-6 years to regain the prestige. Otherwise you get a serious ebb and flow to your team, and unless that flow includes and E8 you are in trouble. The issue is playing against such awesome teams that you fall back down so quickly. There no more quick rebuild, which is good, but as such I have been hesitant to jump up in any of my DII teams as I feel DII is much more competitive and fun now days.

Posted by davis on 12/6/2010 11:54:00 AM (view original):
Jeff, I think this is a really good idea.  As you're probably aware, the ACC in Smith just lost yet another human coach - we currently stand at five AI schools (FSU, NCSt, Va, VaTech, and Wake), and I'm afraid no one is going to try to come in and make any of them competitive.  And, of course, you just lost a good coach at South Carolina in similar circumstances.

So if you have more than one coach contact you about this to let you take over a program, let me know - I'd be willing to try the same thing you're suggesting here.  My only restriction is that I can't really handle a two-games-per-day world, and that if I take over a program in Rupp or Smith then it can't be one that would potentially compete with Texas or Maryland for local recruits.

I'd be interested in trying this also. 

I grabbed Boston College in Rupp and they had been down at C prestige for several years....Year one we got slapped around in recruiting by mid majors for recruits less than 100mi away and got no one...Year two we grabbed some pieces and was able to land a couple of BCS type talent players.

Moving from the FCP to a combo and then to a Zone most likely.

SOS so far is near .300 as F HCA had to be dealt with...

9-1 in NC and 1-1 so far in conference.....long process for sure. Curious to see how long boosters give me.

Will join this expirement as I am an above average coach at best...