I'm perplexed and would like some ideas here.

I'm in the second season of trying to rebuild this program from the bottom up.  So I have a young team that's not all that athletic.  I've accepted losing more than I win this year (last year was 2-24), but I'm hoping to see improvement in skills and IQs enough that in another season or two I can at least expect to beat .500.

Last night I played Lincoln, coached by the Sim AI.  I expected it to be a close game just based on stats and ratings, but I'd hoped to pull out a win since they're not all that good either.

I have my player distro set to run most of my plays for 4 starters (PG Cheeseman is there for defense and playmaking).  I set it up with 15% each for Oberle, Deweese, Andersen and Harris.  Everybody else gets "0".  I also play a Slow Down offense to compensate for my lack of athletes.

I play almost exclusively a 2-3 zone.  Last night I added a "+1" positioning since Lincoln looked like they had a couple of guards who might go off on me.  (My team is practicing 100% Man to man this season, but they're lousy at it yet so I play zone in games since all of them but the freshmen are B's to A's in IQ).

Imagine my chagrin this morning when I see the box score:  whatifsports.com/hd/GameResults/BoxScore.aspx

4 of my 5 starters fouled out - my guards in 20 and 30 minutes respectively.  My top reserve SG fouled out after 28 minutes. That left me with my starting C/PF, a freshman who doesn't know how to play 2-3 yet, and a couple other subs who are on the bench for a reason.

I lost by 5, 104-99, so it was a close game.  But I'm scratching my head as to what I could have done differently or why, when playing a ZONE, virtually my entire team would foul out of the game?

I haven't played with the Foul Trouble settings in the distro screen, but until now I haven't felt the need to.  If one or two players foul out, I usually have enough reserve firepower to at least stay in the game.

I thought perhaps the fouls were a function of ATH/SPD, but Lincoln's not any more athletic or speedy than my guys.  Their 2 starting guards also fouled out, which isn't a fair exchange for my 5 guys DQ'd.

Is this just a random burp in probabilities, or is something else going on?

10 intentional fouls and double overtime

Well your defensive ratings are awful. What defense you play doesn't matter too much when your D ratings are that bad.

Posted by kmasonbx on 12/19/2010 4:27:00 PM (view original):
Well your defensive ratings are awful. What defense you play doesn't matter too much when your D ratings are that bad.

I've been practicing individual FW skills to the maximum all along.  Their defensive ratings have been worse in the past :)

But still - my D ratings were no worse than Lincoln's.  I could accept that reason if the other team was full of great athletes, but they weren't.

Posted by pinkeye on 12/19/2010 4:24:00 PM (view original):
10 intentional fouls and double overtime

And my second consecutive 2OT game in a row :(

Posted by ethan66 on 12/19/2010 4:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kmasonbx on 12/19/2010 4:27:00 PM (view original):
Well your defensive ratings are awful. What defense you play doesn't matter too much when your D ratings are that bad.

I've been practicing individual FW skills to the maximum all along.  Their defensive ratings have been worse in the past :)

But still - my D ratings were no worse than Lincoln's.  I could accept that reason if the other team was full of great athletes, but they weren't.

Well they committed 27 fouls you committed 30, not like there was a big gap in fouls.

One was a pressing team the other was a +1 zone (playing slowdown on offense).  There are some logic issues.  Cheeseman picked up fouls #3, 4 and 5 when in intentional fouling mode at the end of regulation and Barnett picked up all 5 of his fouls in the 2nd overtime.  3 of his fouls were when in intentional fouling mode.  IRL there would be O/D substituttions and direction for someone else to foul.  Send a ticket on the logic of that.

I agree with the logic issue, but understand that a lot of things will help your team stay out of foul trouble...speed, ath., def. ratings, def. IQ...and your team isn't very strong in any of those areas. The good news is it will get better!

Posted by bdixon on 12/20/2010 12:23:00 AM (view original):
I agree with the logic issue, but understand that a lot of things will help your team stay out of foul trouble...speed, ath., def. ratings, def. IQ...and your team isn't very strong in any of those areas. The good news is it will get better!

Thanks for the pointers, guys.  I'll file a report later this morning on the intentional foul thing.

I've been painfully aware of my team's defensive weaknesses since the first day I took over the team last season.  Correcting the problem takes time, however, since I've struggled to recruit the kind of players I want/need.  But that, too, is changing.  Give me a few more seasons and hopefully it won't be an issue any more.

Meanwhile I'm wondering if there's anything I can do in terms of foul settings (more/less aggressive) or late game situation that would at least moderate the problem I experienced in that game?

Posted by ethan66 on 12/20/2010 10:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bdixon on 12/20/2010 12:23:00 AM (view original):
I agree with the logic issue, but understand that a lot of things will help your team stay out of foul trouble...speed, ath., def. ratings, def. IQ...and your team isn't very strong in any of those areas. The good news is it will get better!

Thanks for the pointers, guys.  I'll file a report later this morning on the intentional foul thing.

I've been painfully aware of my team's defensive weaknesses since the first day I took over the team last season.  Correcting the problem takes time, however, since I've struggled to recruit the kind of players I want/need.  But that, too, is changing.  Give me a few more seasons and hopefully it won't be an issue any more.

Meanwhile I'm wondering if there's anything I can do in terms of foul settings (more/less aggressive) or late game situation that would at least moderate the problem I experienced in that game?

not really, i don't think at least. honestly there wasn't really that much of an issue this game - your guys fouled a little more than they should have in the regular game, and nobody fouled out until you were intentionally fouling, which is how most of your guys got their final fouls. if you end up winning or losing the game by 1 before overtime, you probably wouldn't have thought twice about this. so, i would suggest you just put it behind you. if you see fatigue issues (such as over fouling) regularly, then you might want to cut back how far you push certain players. but other than that there isn't much you can do - except to recruit better defensive players.

Here's the response to the ticket I submitted on end-game foul logic:

"It's not usually possible to direct a certain player to foul when you're intentionally fouling. Whoever is closest to the ball and can get to that player will commit the foul. Sometimes that may end up being the same guy a few times in a row.

There is no special substitution logic for when you're intentionally fouling. Since that is normally at the end of the game, foul trouble isn't much of a concern at that point."

I disagree that foul trouble isn't a concern at the end of games (that's exactly when it is a concern).  And if there isn't special substitution logic for intentionally fouling, shouldn't there be?

there should be, but it simply is beyond the current detail of the game

Posted by metsmax on 12/22/2010 10:52:00 AM (view original):
there should be, but it simply is beyond the current detail of the game

I've tightened the settings for late game fouling,  down to only fouling if behind >10 and under 1 minute to play.  At that point it's probably useless, but it's not the first omission the game has committed.

Posted by ethan66 on 12/22/2010 10:30:00 AM (view original):
Here's the response to the ticket I submitted on end-game foul logic:

"It's not usually possible to direct a certain player to foul when you're intentionally fouling. Whoever is closest to the ball and can get to that player will commit the foul. Sometimes that may end up being the same guy a few times in a row.

There is no special substitution logic for when you're intentionally fouling. Since that is normally at the end of the game, foul trouble isn't much of a concern at that point."

I disagree that foul trouble isn't a concern at the end of games (that's exactly when it is a concern).  And if there isn't special substitution logic for intentionally fouling, shouldn't there be?

Exactly.  Agree with you ethan.  Teams all the time direct certain players to commit fouls and certainly there are O/D substitutions for that all the time. 

If you tie the game up through the strategy of intentional fouling and it goes into OT, it could be huge.