Reboundign clarification Topic

isack24
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I always thought rebounding was an individual rating that affected the game on an individual basis.  Now, I'm hearing people say things about aggregate rebound ratings as if that's how the engine determines rebounds.  Someone please tell me that's not the case.  That would be ridiculous.
1/14/2011 8:48 AM
trobone
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well things like athleticism and speed affect everything...

a 90 ath 60 rb player would arguable be better than a 50 ath 75 rb player.

and a 99 speed SG with 50 per is more likely to be able to get off a shot or drive inside than a 50 speed 80 per player.

but it's not like defense affects per or passing changes how well you can block a shot.

1/14/2011 9:28 AM
oldresorter
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Posted by isack24 on 1/14/2011 8:48:00 AM (view original):
I always thought rebounding was an individual rating that affected the game on an individual basis.  Now, I'm hearing people say things about aggregate rebound ratings as if that's how the engine determines rebounds.  Someone please tell me that's not the case.  That would be ridiculous.
Isack - not ridiculous, think of it this way, lets assume just reb affects rebounding to keep it simple.  I would generate a total team number by a formula like this:

team reb = Centers reb x .5 + PF's x .3 + SF's x .15 + SG's x .1 + PG's x .05

if team A's team reb is lets say 75 and team B's team reb is say 66, then team A on average is going to get 8% more rebounds than team B.

finally, once the engine determines which team gets the rebound, then the engine goes back and decides who on that team actually got the rebound, using the same sort of weighted formula, where centers have greater odds, as do the guys with better REB type numbers.

I am guessing this is how it is done, based on some background I have with board games from way back, around the time Abe Lincoln was president and the most powerful computer was an abacus.
1/14/2011 9:49 AM
isack24
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Well that's not an aggregate, it's a weighted formula.  So, no, that would not be ridiculous.

If that's how it works, I'm fine.
1/14/2011 9:56 AM
fd343ny
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I'm thinking we may have some former APBA or STRAT players on the forums.....from back when snakes had legs
1/14/2011 10:54 AM
alblack56
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.and I still have my 1973 Stratomatic Baseball player cards
1/14/2011 1:06 PM
isack24
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I've heard of Stratomatic stuff.  No idea what APBA is.  Guess I'm not one of them!
1/14/2011 1:29 PM
Weena
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So this formula is saying that if I recruit a PG with a 15 Reb rather that one with a 3 Reb that it increases the chances of my C getting credit for a rebound. Am I understanding this correctly?

1/14/2011 1:50 PM
vandydave
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i sure as heck hope that isnt how the engine works. if my PGs RB rating is impacting whether or not my 98 RB C gets the rebound rather than the opponent's 71 RB C then this game is more of a wreck that anyone should want to be part of.
1/14/2011 1:55 PM
isack24
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Posted by vandydave on 1/14/2011 1:55:00 PM (view original):
i sure as heck hope that isnt how the engine works. if my PGs RB rating is impacting whether or not my 98 RB C gets the rebound rather than the opponent's 71 RB C then this game is more of a wreck that anyone should want to be part of.
That was my thinking. 

Of course, OR's sugestion is certainly better than what I assumed people were talking about when they were saying "aggregate" and meanign somethign else.
1/14/2011 2:08 PM
mullycj
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Posted by Weena on 1/14/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):

So this formula is saying that if I recruit a PG with a 15 Reb rather that one with a 3 Reb that it increases the chances of my C getting credit for a rebound. Am I understanding this correctly?

I think this is the case and its OK.

Lets assume 2 centers with identical ratings. My team has 2 Gs with 25 rebound RTG and opponent has 2 Gs with 1 rebound rating. Are you telling me that that fact that my Gs are fighting harder for rebounds won't help my center get the rebound?? If it helps the team get a rebound it would also help the center.
1/14/2011 2:21 PM
isack24
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Posted by mullycj on 1/14/2011 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Weena on 1/14/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):

So this formula is saying that if I recruit a PG with a 15 Reb rather that one with a 3 Reb that it increases the chances of my C getting credit for a rebound. Am I understanding this correctly?

I think this is the case and its OK.

Lets assume 2 centers with identical ratings. My team has 2 Gs with 25 rebound RTG and opponent has 2 Gs with 1 rebound rating. Are you telling me that that fact that my Gs are fighting harder for rebounds won't help my center get the rebound?? If it helps the team get a rebound it would also help the center.
I don't really think it helps the center get a rebound.

I do, however, think it helps the team get a rebound, which is why I am OK with it, assuming the weighting is appropriate, not something that gives guards too much of an influence.
1/14/2011 2:24 PM
jwilli7122
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Posted by Weena on 1/14/2011 1:50:00 PM (view original):

So this formula is saying that if I recruit a PG with a 15 Reb rather that one with a 3 Reb that it increases the chances of my C getting credit for a rebound. Am I understanding this correctly?

no.  it doesn't matter whether you figure the team first or the player first. the result is the same.  according to what others are saying, the high REB pg is more likely to get his team a rebound because he is more likely to get one himself.  if you do it the reverse and do the team first, he adds rebounds to his team, but he also takes a higher % away from his teammates.  the resulting numbers are the same either way.


as an example lets take two teams of two players each, a PG and C.  and here are their rebounding %s after taking into account positions and all player attributes:

team 1 [offense]:  C 25%, PG 5%
team 2[defense] C 50%, PG 20%

if we figure team first team 2 has a 70% chance of gaining the rebound.   then we can divvy that up amongst the 2 players to find the C's rebound %:  (.7)*(.5/.7)= 50%

alternatively, we can start with player %s.   team 2's C has a 50% chance and their PG has a 20% chance and thus the team has a 70% chance. the numbers are th same either way unless i am misinterpreting what you guys mean by "figuring team rebounds first"
1/14/2011 2:54 PM (edited)
oldresorter
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You really don't need to figure team rebounds first, you could just weight by the factors, which might include position and throw them all in a pool,

that assumes that you have never played basketball and don't realize that everyone contributes to rebounding by blocking out, getting into the scrum, diving on the floor, pushing, shoving, biting and gouging - but in theory you could eliminate your teammates from the equation, and the weighted math would work individually,

it is not how I recall strat-o-matic or that other one, what APBA, working, both of which I played as a teenager years ago.

Early when I played this, a large % of the coaches here knew tarek, I seem to recall one of those coaches telling me in a sitemail that tarek got the idea from the old dice and board games, I did not hear this from tarek, so I don't know if true or not.  I have always approached the game as if it copied those board games, it has worked out pretty well for me.
1/14/2011 3:13 PM
jwilli7122
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"You really don't need to figure team rebounds first, you could just weight by the factors, which might include position and throw them all in a pool...that assumes that you have never played basketball and don't realize that everyone contributes to rebounding by blocking out, getting into the scrum, diving on the floor, pushing, shoving, biting and gouging - but in theory you could eliminate your teammates from the equation, and the weighted math would work individually"

as far as i can tell there is no difference.  one method does not factor in team play more than the other.  they are differently phrased versions of exactly the same method
1/14/2011 3:25 PM (edited)
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