HAWAII... why is it in a big 6 conference, it can't recruit competitively. I highly doubt they will ever remove it from the Pac-10, I'm just wondering if they did who should replace Hawaii?

Utah? BYU? San Diego St.? UNLV?

I personally San Diego St. would be good but I also like the idea of creeping towards the midwest with a Utah school...

The isolation of Hawaii can be a problem - or if you get lucky and manage the roster well, it can be helpful.  hawaii in Smith:

Season	Coach	Overall W-L	Home W-L	Road W-L	Neutral W-L	Conf W-L	Rank	RPI	Prestige	Notes
49	willmes	22-8	9-4	11-2	2-2	10-6	23	31	B+	NT At-large Bid NT (Sweet 16)
48	willmes	20-8	11-3	9-3	0-2	12-4		47	B	NT At-large Bid NT (1st Round)
47	willmes	22-7	13-2	8-3	1-2	11-5		30	B-	NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
46	willmes	11-17	5-6	5-10	1-1	5-11		113	C
45	willmes	11-16	7-8	4-7	0-1	4-12		163	C
44	willmes	6-21	5-9	1-11	0-1	2-14		218	C
43	willmes	15-13	9-5	6-7	0-1	5-11		85	C+	PI (1st Round)
42	willmes	14-13	6-6	8-6	0-1	4-12		109	C
41	willmes	13-15	4-6	8-8	1-1	4-12		114	C
40	Sim AI	4-23	3-13	1-9	0-1	1-15		254	C
39	jay_rusty	12-15	8-7	4-7	0-1	7-9		142	C
38	jay_rusty	12-16	6-5	5-10	1-1	8-8		120	C+
37	jay_rusty	10-17	8-6	2-10	0-1	4-12		186	B-
36	jay_rusty	16-12	7-7	8-4	1-1	12-4		102	B	Conf Champion
35	jay_rusty	10-17	6-6	4-10	0-1	7-9		155	B+
34	jay_rusty	24-9	13-1	6-6	5-2	11-5	2	3	A-	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (Championship Game)
33	jay_rusty	25-7	11-2	9-4	5-1	12-4	11	9	B+	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (Sweet 16)
32	jay_rusty	14-13	10-5	4-7	0-1	7-9		123	B
31	jay_rusty	20-9	12-2	7-5	1-2	10-6		26	B+	NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
30	jay_rusty	20-9	10-4	9-3	1-2	13-3		19	B	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
29	jay_rusty	19-12	11-4	5-6	3-2	8-8		44	B	PI (Final Four)
28	jay_rusty	12-15	6-4	6-10	0-1	10-6		133	B+
27	goosegoslin	24-9	9-3	9-5	6-1	11-5	3	1	A-	NT At-large Bid National Champion
26	goosegoslin	21-9	7-4	11-4	3-1	12-4		32	B-	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (1st Round)
25	goosegoslin	18-10	9-1	9-7	0-2	10-6		65	B-	PI (1st Round)
24	goosegoslin	15-14	5-4	9-8	1-2	8-8		59	B-	PI (2nd Round)
23	goosegoslin	17-12	8-3	8-7	1-2	10-6		57	C+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (1st Round)
22	goosegoslin	19-10	8-3	10-5	1-2	10-6		40	-	NT At-large Bid NT (2nd Round)
21	goosegoslin	16-12	5-5	10-6	1-1	10-6		108	-
20	goosegoslin	24-7	9-2	11-4	4-1	12-4	23	10	-	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (2nd Round)
19	goosegoslin	11-17	6-4	4-12	1-1	7-9		165	-
18	goosegoslin	17-13	9-3	6-8	2-2	10-6		49	-	NT At-large Bid NT (1st Round)
17	goosegoslin	22-9	8-6	10-2	4-1	14-2		67	-	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (2nd Round)
16	goosegoslin	16-11	6-6	10-4	0-1	9-7		187	-
15	metsmax	27-4	12-1	12-1	3-2	14-2		69	-	Conf Champion PI (Final Four)
14	metsmax	23-9	10-3	9-4	4-2	12-4		48	-	Conf Champion PI (Final Four)
13	metsmax	19-9	11-2	7-6	1-1	11-5		106	-	Conf Champion
12	Sim AI	7-20	5-6	2-13	0-1	4-12		248	-
11	raybie2305	19-9	12-1	7-6	0-2	12-4		38	-	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (1st Round)
10	Sim AI	20-9	12-1	7-6	1-2	12-4		62	-	Conf Champion PI (2nd Round)
9	Sim AI	11-16	8-5	3-10	0-1	5-11		168	-
8	Sim AI	5-22	4-9	1-12	0-1	3-13		301	-
7	Sim AI	14-13	7-5	7-7	0-1	6-10		157	-
6	Sim AI	17-13	5-9	9-3	3-1	9-7		91	-
5	Sim AI	7-20	6-8	1-11	0-1	2-14		247	-
4	Sim AI	4-23	2-10	2-12	0-1	4-12		310	-
3	Sim AI	7-20	4-9	3-10	0-1	4-12		249	-
2	Sim AI	7-20	6-7	1-12	0-1	3-13		255	-
1	Sim AI	3-24	1-12	2-11	0-1	3-13		313	-

Recruits 1 to 14 of 14

This is Hawaii's D1 recruits in Allen.  #1 Center and #4 and #14 SG ain't a bad class with little or no competition.

I realize that there are plenty of factors that contribute to this, but in terms of lifetime winning pcts here are the worst 3 Big 6 schools in Tark & Knight, I can't see the other worlds would love for someone to post the data for those:

Tark
1)Purdue .406, 2) Hawaii .408, 3) Seton Hall .417
Knight
1) St John's .399, 2) Auburn .431, 3) Baylor .436 Hawaii is .449 and is 6th worst (also ahead of Georgia & Georgia Tech)

Worst 3 in Allen are
Oklahoma State, Auburn and Notre Dame.

Posted by reinsel on 3/15/2011 10:09:00 AM (view original):
Recruits 1 to 14 of 14

	Pos	Name	Height	Weight	Rating	Rank	Eligible Years	Location	Miles	Considering
	SG	Todd Gravenstein	6'4"	195	793	4	4	Kahului, HI	4600
	C	Manuel Hornung	6'10"	248	787	1	4	Honolulu, HI	4660
	SG	Brian Parra	6'0"	184	654	14	4	Ewa Beach, HI	4670
	PF	Fred White	6'9"	225	578		3	Wahiawa, HI	4670
	SF	Larry Ellis	6'7"	211	576	51	4	Makawao, HI	4590
	PG	Dale Dey	5'10"	175	576	103	4	Kailua, HI	4660
	C	Martin Muncy	6'9"	228	569	49	4	Honolulu, HI	4660
	PG	Thomas Brown	6'3"	199	562	44	4	Honolulu, HI	4660
	SF	Donald Saunders	6'3"	205	552	94	4	Hilo, HI	4550
	PG	Peter Garraway	6'2"	180	550	117	4	Honolulu, HI	4660
	SF	Jack Wood	6'6"	223	521		4	Makawao, HI	4590
	C	Lloyd Demuth	6'7"	215	503	197	4	Honolulu, HI	4670
	C	Napoleon Williams	6'5"	213	498		4	Honolulu, HI	4670
	PG	David Batten	6'0"	171	471	186	4	Honolulu, HI	4660

This is Hawaii's D1 recruits in Allen.  #1 Center and #4 and #14 SG ain't a bad class with little or no competition.

Those are better recruits than I get in California in knight. I've pared down to 1 team in knight and watching Hawaii get 1 decent recruit every 2nd or 3rd year means it cannot be competitive in a big 6 conference. At least in the new engine in knight it has had no chance to compete.

Looks like it really depends on the luck of the draw. The best HI recruiting pool I see is in Tark for my 4 worlds, with them having #12 PF, #21 C, and #30 SG. 

I agree its all luck.  In Allen, this was a VERY lucky draw for them with 2 great and 1 solid top level D1 player.

When Hawaii doesn't get a great draw, they can play the international market where at least things are even.  When both internationals and local is dried up, seems they're SOL.

it is hard - I was there for a long time in Crum - the problem is that some times there is no one in hawaii who belongs on a BCS roster - and then some seasons there are guys who are so good that the A prestige places come over and just take him - you need some solid players to build upon.......

Posted by reinsel on 3/15/2011 1:48:00 PM (view original):
I agree its all luck.  In Allen, this was a VERY lucky draw for them with 2 great and 1 solid top level D1 player.

I could be wrong, but after looking at the recruit distribution of various states in my world, the quality of Hawaii recruits in Allen is better than states like CA, NY, TX. Great year to be hawaii.

this thread is funny. right now i am in a heated debate with customer support and one of my arguments stems from the hawaii job. if any of you remember three seasons back in knight i started a thread about the hawaii job. i had just come off of my fourth d3 championship with la verne and i was listed as a longshot for the hawaii job. i've let everyone know that i only wanted to leave la verne for a d1 job at a big 6 conference school and when this opportunity presented itself i applied. i of course didn't get the gig it went to dweolf who happened to have d2 experience and that outranked my championships. so i play another season at la verne, won my fifth championship, decided to take a step forward with a d1 school, not a dream school at all, but figured i'd add some d1 experience to the resume in hopes of getting a hawaii like gig. so hawaii opens up in knight this season and i'm not qualified. not a longshot, just flat out not qualified. how the heck is that possible? so for everyone who doesn't want this gig, i've been doing everything i can to get it. funny.

i'm still debating on posting the customer support discussion.

Posted by reinsel on 3/15/2011 11:12:00 AM (view original):
Worst 3 in Allen are
Oklahoma State, Auburn and Notre Dame.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah.

Generically speaking, I think Ariz St is one of the worst jobs in any world. You have 3 A baseline prestige schools just in your half of the conference. Also, anything in state gets sucked up by Arizona. Anything west gets pounced on by the california schools. You are too far west to recruit Texas effectively and going north you run into your pac-10 mates again.

And, you can't recruit Mexico because the police will pull your players over and ask them for their papers on a daily basis, cutting down on their practice time.

Depends.  Are we starting from baseline?  If so, Northwestern or Iowa have to be towards the bottom of the barrel.  Awful baseline prestiges plus immense midwest competition from the Michigan State's and Indiana's of the world, who can have perennial cruddy seasons, get back to the tournament for a year, and suddenly are back on par with every other team in the conference. 

More of a rant on prestige and baselines than anything else.