Is it better to have a pitch that's very bad (in the example I'm curious about, it's 15) or to have no pitch at all?  Meaning - 88, 72, 70, 15 - or - 88, 72, 70. 

Thanks.

I think when it's a 5th pitch, anything in the 20s is good, but I tend to judge on a sliding scale from 1-5, so 15 is awful for a 4th pitch.

So you're saying that the pitch hurts this pitcher? As in, he'd be better off without it?

If that's true, what's your opinion on where the cut-off point is on pitches being effective/detrimental for each pitch?

I've heard it said that any pitch rated over 30 will help the pitcher.

If a pitcher had pitches of 85, 55, 65, 80... would he use them in order of best pitch?  Or would it go strictly by P1, P2, P3 and P4, regardless of the pitch rating?

I once saw a pitcher with only a knuckleball and changeup, with a velocity of 98.  That is the kind of cat you should be looking for.

Posted by a_ersberg on 3/30/2011 6:11:00 PM (view original):
If a pitcher had pitches of 85, 55, 65, 80... would he use them in order of best pitch?  Or would it go strictly by P1, P2, P3 and P4, regardless of the pitch rating?

I'm pretty sure we've been told before (whether through Dev Chats, or Helpdesk Ticket responses) that the order of the pitch #'s (P1, P2, etc) is irrelavent.  In other words

90, 80, 70, 60 ,40  =  70, 90, 60, 80, 40

Posted by duece112 on 3/30/2011 6:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by a_ersberg on 3/30/2011 6:11:00 PM (view original):
If a pitcher had pitches of 85, 55, 65, 80... would he use them in order of best pitch?  Or would it go strictly by P1, P2, P3 and P4, regardless of the pitch rating?

I'm pretty sure we've been told before (whether through Dev Chats, or Helpdesk Ticket responses) that the order of the pitch #'s (P1, P2, etc) is irrelavent.  In other words

90, 80, 70, 60 ,40  =  70, 90, 60, 80, 40

I'm almost positive we were told the opposite, but more good pitches is never a bad thing, so who knows.....

Posted by burnsy483 on 3/30/2011 5:12:00 PM (view original):
So you're saying that the pitch hurts this pitcher? As in, he'd be better off without it?

If that's true, what's your opinion on where the cut-off point is on pitches being effective/detrimental for each pitch?

Um, kinda.  Something about the potential for it to suck (and getting hit) outweighs the "guessing" that the hitter has to do?

My sliding scale is something along the lines of 100-80-60-40-20 or maybe 75-70-65-50-25.... but I'm not sure what I'm trying to say anymore.  It has been a long day.

The lines between "acceptable" and "effective" get blurred, as no pitch can be viewed in a vacuum.

In rather detailed exchanges with higher level CS, I have been told that below average pitches (<50) can serve as a negative.

The ticket was sent in asking why a particular RP was chosen at a particular point, and it can down to a comparison between these two guys - 


Alex Smyth (LHP) - 92 control, 75 vLH, 68 vRH, 82 P1, 65 P2, 59 P3, 49 P4, 35 P5, 86 velocity, 51 GB/FB
Tommy McIntyre (LHP) - 87 control, 83 vLH, 65 vRH, 74 P1, 70 P2, 51 P3, 88 velocity, 35 GB/FB

"<snip>
Alex has better control, a significantly better first pitch, a better third pitch, 2 "extra" pitches, better effectiveness vs. RH (the hand of the batter at the plate) and a better GB/FB rating. The *only* things McIntyre is stronger at are P2 (70 vs 65) and velocity (88 vs 86). The P2 difference in favor of McIntyre is more than outweighed by the P1 and P3 differences in favor of Smyth (82 vs 74; 59 vs 51) and the fact that he has 2 additional pitches to go to. 

So, are you really telling me that the extra two points (88 vs 86) in velocity makes McIntyre the "most effective of the bunch in that situation" or is there some additional rating that I have overlooked?
CS Response (and I was well past level 1 at this point) - 

"And the pitch grades. While one has more pitches, some of the lesser pitches are below average so they can serve as a negative."

("Average" was later confirmed to be 50.)

Mind you, I still don't think that is *how* it should work (I think Smyth should be more effective every day of the week) but Sparky did, in fact, choose McIntyre over Smyth and higher level CS indicated that was the "right" decision.

Pitch Average
Smyth:  58
McIntrye:  65

I agree Smyth is the better pitcher, in fact the formula I use is (SUM/50) * (AVG/2.5) , which puts Smyth's arsenal ahead 134.56 to 101.4.  But I assume it is making the decisions based on pitch average.

Interesting thoughts, guys.  I'll assume the pitch hurts him.  Thanks.