When to promote guys... Topic

canadadry
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When do you promote your players?  Before ST?  Right before the season starts?  Before the All-star breaks?  After the all-star breaks?  whenever the player is performing?  I want to hear how the pros do it! 
4/30/2012 2:56 PM
a_ersberg
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To save a season of salary control, you would need to wait until the 20th minor league cycle to promote.  That's pretty important. 

I like to promote right around the transaction deadline.  There will probably be at least one player you won't want/need and you can swap them out.   But, if you have no chance at making the postseason, keep the prospect in the minors so he'll get the most at bats to further his development
4/30/2012 3:00 PM
jsturgis5866
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I don't think CD is talking about major leaguers, exclusively, anyway.

Major leaguers -- I'll promote before Rule V (if I don't care about service time) .... at the end of ST (I often demote borderline players early, to avoid penalty, then decide who I want to use) ... re-evaluate at the AS break ... roster expansion.

Minor leaguers -- Either in preseason or at the All-Star break. One of the great misconceptions is that postseason promotions somehow make a difference. They don't. (Although if I'm bored and out of the playoffs, I might do it just to kill time.)
4/30/2012 4:48 PM (edited)
mannytanner
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When it comes to saving a year of arb eligibility, does it make more sense to do that with younger players? For example, I have a 24 year old RP Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Stuart Lyon who is certainly ready for the bigs, but I've kept him in the minors because he's still progressing nicely.. what would you do with a turning 25 year old? I feel like the extra arb year isn't as critical for a 24-25 year old as oppose to a 21-22 year old.

4/30/2012 4:44 PM
jsturgis5866
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I'd agree with you. I've come around to thinking "age-appropriate level" is the 800-pound gorilla in the room. Lyon's pitch quality isn't good, but he's already been hurt once. If I had a spot for him, I'd promote him without thinking twice about it.
4/30/2012 4:52 PM
MikeT23
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Position players will begin to decline at 31-33(for the most part in some categories).   You can control them for 10 seasons.   3 minimum, 2 arb, 5 year deal.   You can extend that to 11 seasons minus 20 games.   With your 24 y/o, you have control of him until he's 33 without waiting.   Already on the downside.
4/30/2012 4:52 PM
MikeT23
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Obviously, I didn't look at you player.   Pitchers are a different beast.   They can pitch well into their late 30s.   That extra season is pretty big, IMO.
4/30/2012 4:53 PM
jsturgis5866
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Posted by MikeT23 on 4/30/2012 4:52:00 PM (view original):
Position players will begin to decline at 31-33(for the most part in some categories).   You can control them for 10 seasons.   3 minimum, 2 arb, 5 year deal.   You can extend that to 11 seasons minus 20 games.   With your 24 y/o, you have control of him until he's 33 without waiting.   Already on the downside.
Hey, Mike... I've been seeing about half my pos. players begin decline at 28-29, maybe over the last 2-3-4 seasons. Not much, just a point in several categories at 28 and at 29, then steady for a couple of seasons. Any idea why? I suspect it might have to do with my no longer obsessing with getting the top 3-4 ML coaches, settling for middle of the pack. Those two things seem to coincide.
4/30/2012 4:59 PM
mannytanner
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Good point Mike. I will wait him out next year.
4/30/2012 5:00 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by jsturgis5866 on 4/30/2012 4:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/30/2012 4:52:00 PM (view original):
Position players will begin to decline at 31-33(for the most part in some categories).   You can control them for 10 seasons.   3 minimum, 2 arb, 5 year deal.   You can extend that to 11 seasons minus 20 games.   With your 24 y/o, you have control of him until he's 33 without waiting.   Already on the downside.
Hey, Mike... I've been seeing about half my pos. players begin decline at 28-29, maybe over the last 2-3-4 seasons. Not much, just a point in several categories at 28 and at 29, then steady for a couple of seasons. Any idea why? I suspect it might have to do with my no longer obsessing with getting the top 3-4 ML coaches, settling for middle of the pack. Those two things seem to coincide.
Training and coaches.   If they're losing physical ratings(speed, power, arm strength, etc), it's because of your training.    If they're losing learned skills(contact, arm accuracy, glove, etc), it's your coaching.   I don't know how bad they have to be but you might.   Make-up also plays a role but that's why I said 31-33.  I don't know if I've seen it with 28-29 on my teams.
4/30/2012 5:05 PM
Crump123
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It depends on the player, i've had players lose power at 28 with 20M coaching, but others not lose points until 31 or so. They have said in the past that peak age varies by player, so it's consistent.
4/30/2012 5:40 PM
jsturgis5866
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Thanks, crump, Mike.... Do you suppose that "peak age" is randomized, or could the makeup Mike talked about be a factor? (Jerks peaking earlier, diligent types later)

Hmmmm... I wonder what sort of makeup Mike wears, er, has ....
4/30/2012 8:04 PM
MikeT23
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Did a quick check on my 5 BL teams of 28-29 year olds.  Make-up apparently has nothing to do with it(based on the three that changed).   Make-up in the 30s improved his VR, make-up in the 60s lost a point in range, make-up in the 60s gained a point in glove. 
5/1/2012 8:11 AM
bighead34
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Posted by jsturgis5866 on 4/30/2012 4:48:00 PM (view original):
I don't think CD is talking about major leaguers, exclusively, anyway.

Major leaguers -- I'll promote before Rule V (if I don't care about service time) .... at the end of ST (I often demote borderline players early, to avoid penalty, then decide who I want to use) ... re-evaluate at the AS break ... roster expansion.

Minor leaguers -- Either in preseason or at the All-Star break. One of the great misconceptions is that postseason promotions somehow make a difference. They don't. (Although if I'm bored and out of the playoffs, I might do it just to kill time.)
What informs your opinion about postseason promotions?
5/1/2012 1:35 PM
MikeT23
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WifS has said time and time again that the development "bumps" are simply markers for your viewing pleasure.

I don't think all of us are 100% sold on that because, if you go deep enough into the playoffs, you might get one more than those who don't.   Now that could be because of the extra AB/IP or it could be because your player get another bump.
5/1/2012 2:10 PM
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