Norbert - please admit you have no clue... Topic

mal247
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...what attributes are actually important.

STR is supposedly a primary attribute for RB.

How does this guy with a whopping 28 STR run for 96 yards against me with an average OL in front of him:
Amazing Paperweight RB


5/8/2012 3:19 PM
ksbillsfan
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Looks like all his other attributes are pretty good. If you look at his stats, you will see he keeps getting stuffed at the line Guessing that is due to his poor STR. 1 bad attribute doesn't make the player bad. 
5/8/2012 3:35 PM
bhouska
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It's not Norbert's fault the game is junk, he's trying to make it better.  
5/8/2012 3:40 PM
kilabe
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he heard your banjo music?
5/8/2012 3:40 PM
nauds3000
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Posted by mal247 on 5/8/2012 3:19:00 PM (view original):
...what attributes are actually important.

STR is supposedly a primary attribute for RB.

How does this guy with a whopping 28 STR run for 96 yards against me with an average OL in front of him:
Amazing Paperweight RB


I laughed when I saw this posts headline, but to be honest. I don't even think Jconte fully understood how the engine was working. So I wouldn't blame Norbert. He's kinda like the hazmat team sent in to clean up a disaster.

Back to the point of your post, I submitted a ticket over a year ago. There was a QB who had a 2/1 TD ratio 3000+ yards passing and 1500+ yards rushing and a 51%+ completion rating.

There were coaches converting RB's to QB's just to see what happens, this QB had 12 GI/Tech (IN D1A!) but had very good running cores, high ATH/SPD/ELUS.

CS's response was basically that the player is able to put up those kind of numbers both passing and rushing because of his high ATH/SPD/ELUS, and that he was "able to keep the play alive longer" with his feet, which is why his passing numbers were so good. I think I gave up trying to figure it all out at that point.
5/8/2012 3:50 PM (edited)
mal247
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Posted by ksbillsfan on 5/8/2012 3:35:00 PM (view original):
Looks like all his other attributes are pretty good. If you look at his stats, you will see he keeps getting stuffed at the line Guessing that is due to his poor STR. 1 bad attribute doesn't make the player bad. 
I didn't stuff him a single time.
5/8/2012 3:55 PM
dano_chan
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He still has good speed and ELU. It's random generated, you can't expect wins by attributes alone.
5/8/2012 4:00 PM
nauds3000
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Posted by nauds3000 on 5/8/2012 3:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by mal247 on 5/8/2012 3:19:00 PM (view original):
...what attributes are actually important.

STR is supposedly a primary attribute for RB.

How does this guy with a whopping 28 STR run for 96 yards against me with an average OL in front of him:
Amazing Paperweight RB


I laughed when I saw this posts headline, but to be honest. I don't even think Jconte fully understood how the engine was working. So I wouldn't blame Norbert. He's kinda like the hazmat team sent in to clean up a disaster.

Back to the point of your post, I submitted a ticket over a year ago. There was a QB who had a 2/1 TD ratio 3000+ yards passing and 1500+ yards rushing and a 51%+ completion rating.

There were coaches converting RB's to QB's just to see what happens, this QB had 12 GI/Tech (IN D1A!) but had very good running cores, high ATH/SPD/ELUS.

CS's response was basically that the player is able to put up those kind of numbers both passing and rushing because of his high ATH/SPD/ELUS, and that he was "able to keep the play alive longer" with his feet, which is why his passing numbers were so good. I think I gave up trying to figure it all out at that point.
Here is one of CS's response to the above QB, if you want to try and dissect it:

1/6/2011 10:05 AM Customer Support
Jesse,

All players perform at a baseline level for each position. If the player is average, his performance is expected to be at the baseline. If the player is below average, then he performs below the baseline....if he is above average, then he performs above the baseline. The bottom line is that a certain level of proficiency is assumed for each player at their position. It doesn't matter that the player previously played a different position, he is now a quarterback and a certain minimum skill level is assumed.

In this case, the player has a couple below average ratings to go along with several above average ratings. This means that his decision making and accuracy will be below average and other aspects will be above average. If you look at the player's performance, most of his passes are very short passes to RBs. The decision making involved when the play is to the RB -- either called or as an outlet because he doesn't know where else to go with the ball -- is minimal. When the pass is short, accuracy becomes much less of an issue in that it is easier to be accurate on a 5 yard pass or behind the line of scrimmage than it is to be accurage on a 15, 20, 25+ yard pass. This player's completion percentage is the bottom of his conference and is very poor when looked at in the context of average completion percentage for a DIA quarterback. This shows that his poor game instinct and sometimes suspect accuracy are impacting his performance.

Thanks.

5/8/2012 4:05 PM
fatmoose103
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The dude's run average is not good at all. It may just be a case of a good day against your team.
5/8/2012 6:38 PM
jhard70
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my $.02, all but I think two rushes were out of Trips and Pro with you running 3-4 and Nickel defenses.  Where your guys were placed in the zone could have had an affect on his performance against your team. FWIW, in the game vs. W Alabama the same player had a 6.0 avg on 10 carries and his success was in Pro against the 3-4.

5/8/2012 7:14 PM
jc1796
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Posted by jhard70 on 5/8/2012 7:14:00 PM (view original):

my $.02, all but I think two rushes were out of Trips and Pro with you running 3-4 and Nickel defenses.  Where your guys were placed in the zone could have had an affect on his performance against your team. FWIW, in the game vs. W Alabama the same player had a 6.0 avg on 10 carries and his success was in Pro against the 3-4.


I noticed that too.  He had a couple long runs and got stuffed a few times too.  Kind of what I'd expect for this kind of RB. 
5/8/2012 7:23 PM
katzphang88
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Speaking to mal: If I were Norbert my response would be "You are absolutely correct, in this version of JConte's game engine, I have no clue what attributes are randomly pulled up to allow that outcome for that running back with that offensive line."

You have been here long enough to know this is not Norbert's designed game engine. Norbert is here, and we hope, will provide us with a new version of the game which allows logical outcomes to player match-ups so that questions regarding "Why can this player  do this?" will be a thing of the past.
5/8/2012 7:44 PM
nshreders
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3-4 defense is junk in this game. Linebackers almost never get sacks in the new engine - it can happen but is very rare. 99% of the sacks come from the defensive line, why make that the thinnest spot on the field?
5/9/2012 10:56 AM
ozzzball19
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Posted by nshreders on 5/9/2012 10:56:00 AM (view original):
3-4 defense is junk in this game. Linebackers almost never get sacks in the new engine - it can happen but is very rare. 99% of the sacks come from the defensive line, why make that the thinnest spot on the field?
I used the 3/4 exclusively with one team and while my DL overall had far more sacks than the LB, I did have one OLB with 9 sacks on the season.
5/9/2012 11:03 AM
norbert
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Let me "clue" you in to how the engine actually works.    A low rating doesn't trigger a poor performance from a player just because it is low.  When checking ratings of a player for performance, it factors in all the ratings against all the ratings of the defender, or in case of team versus team checks, the average of the players.  So for instance, if a formula factors in STR, SPD, ELU, and GI, it averages those ratings into that check so one low rating can be insignificant if the other ratings are higher.

This is something I'd like to change.  I'd like to see a high SPD, low STR guy perform as you would expect, and perform differently than a high STR, low SPD guy.   To do that requires rebuilding the engine to break out those checks so I can compare a player's or team's STR against the opponent's STR when necessary, or SPD versus SPD.  That will allow us to check if a player is evading tackles or breaking through them.  However, in order to do this, I pretty much have to gut how the engine is currently simulating the plays and that means a lot more work than just trying to tweak the current engine.  I can't totally eliminate random results, but I'm really really going to try to limit them.  The key will be to allow everything to work through the beta period and get some good testing in, allowing us to push out the new engine with some new expectations, but not so different that people that have been playing are put off.

Anyway, you don't have to insult me to get my attention.
5/9/2012 2:51 PM
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