Curious to hear what veteran coaches thoughts are on aggressive recruiting approach at the start of recruiting. i have a C+/B- type of program and i have always tried to wait till the first signing period to start recruiting. however this time around i have spotted a couple player who would be considered "dropdowns" if they signed at my level that i really like. I know i am suppose to contact them and see if i am a backup option before i go any further with the recruiting of higher division players. How do some of the successful coaches handle these types of situations? Do you wait and do the min.amount of probing or do you go aggressively out of the gate with CV,HV since it is no money lost if the decline these items?
Thanks for any input.

I always recruit aggressively. I can't even imagine waiting until signing day to begin recruiting. Especially at DIII where battling is so uncommon.

My brother has had impressive success recruiting very aggressively while I've advised him against it.  Since I'm an idiot, he may be right.

Posted by pjbrankin on 7/31/2012 7:57:00 PM (view original):
I always recruit aggressively. I can't even imagine waiting until signing day to begin recruiting. Especially at DIII where battling is so uncommon.

I agree. I have no clue on div 1, but since he mentioned drop downs I assume he is not talking Div 1. I found, perhaps wrongly, or I just spent so much time searching for what I think is the right fit for team, I jump early. Div 3 I found it was needed. Div 2, maybe not so much because can get in some minor battles. I agree with billyg's philosophy (just wish I could perform it as well as he does), sometimes you look for a piece that fits your team. When you find one you think might it is hard to not press for it

THANKS for all the information. how much "balls to the walls " do you go after them with a HV, CV a Scholly, PT?

I usually try to pull down one local recruit early...sometimes two if I have the cash and there are two studs within 70 miles.

I use the 10 ST and Scholarship  and then 10 more ST until I pull him down.

If I need to check some high-highs, I'll send a few ST's until I make my decision to go for it and then I do it in blocks of 10.

Whether I'm aggressive or not depends on what's out there and sometimes on which or if/how many cycles I know in advance I'm going to miss. I've done both aggressive and conservative plays with success, there is no need to lock yourself into a wait strategy from the beginning before even seeing what's out there. It can turn out to be the best strategy for that particular recruiting season, but until you've done your scouting and pre-lim work, how can you know? My group of sophomores in Crum which I love came from me having to be uber aggressive because I knew I wasn't going to be around for 2 days of recruiting starting before signings began (family stinks, right? LOL), while being aggressive cost me my last time recruiting in Wooden. A more conservative approach landed me a nice class in Smith the last cycle over there. Thems the breaks sometimes. You win some, you lose some. Just realize if you're going to be aggressive, unless you have no choice, it's always a good idea to hold money to protect your recruits if need be.

It's funny to me how words can have different meanings to some people. When I saw the title of this thread, I immediately assumed the question would be about whether to spend a ton of cash on a recruit or spend very little and hope for the best. It never crossed my mind to associate the word agressive with starting to recruit prior to signing. I have always thought it best to start recruiting from the 1st cycle unless for some reason I can't. In those cases, I start recruiting as soon as I can get to it.

My approach is to build target lists and then send out a single phone call to potential dropdown/pulldown candidates. When I get the feedback, I decide which players to go after. This is the point where I decide whether to purchase FSS or not. My logic is why spend money buying a state before I know if there is any player from that state that I even might want. When that analysis is completed, I send out 10 STs and the scholie offer. There is no need to send HV/CVs because they will be rejected.

I can probably count on one hand the number of recruits I have lost to upper division schools in all the time I have used that approach. You just have to learn to shoot for the upper limit your prestige will allow you to go without overshooting. The players I have lost to upper division schools have all been players that I could talk to but were really out of my reach. Now I have had a boatload of players I have spent money on who I have lost out on to schools within my same division but that is a story for another thread. If you stay within your range, there is no reason not to start recruiting as soon as the gates open. I use this approach with all my teams some of which are C/D prestige DIII/DII teams.

thanks Weena and everyone good information. lets me know i am not too far off in what i am doing. my next question is how do you determine what the upper linit of a programs prestiage is? 

That is a tough question to try and verbalize, willow. To me it is a gut feeling based on experience. For example, say that I am at a DII C+ school and I get the backup email from a Center. The recruit has an 85/80/80 Athl/Reb/LP all High potential. No way am going to waste a nickle on him because I guarantee that either an A/A+ DII school or a low level DI school will be all over him. That is a battle I don't care to fight. Another example would be a recruit who is 10 miles from my C prestige DIII campus. He is a 575 overall SF with good skill/potential at Athl/Spd/Reb/Per/LP/BH/Pass. He will talk to me because I am within the 70 mile range but I know I don't have a snowball's chance of signing him because he is "too good". It really just boils down to trial and error along the learning curve and spending time studying the type of players higher prestige schools sign. I still don't always get it right but I don't lose as much money at it as I did a few years ago.

With all due respect, Weena...I'm going to have to disagree with some of your advice here.

I think that your approach listed above can definitely save some money and perhaps prevent recruiting disasters that result from higher division schools swooping in on your targets. However, holding yourself back from going after those recruits that are "too good" will probably also prevent you from becoming an elite team. 

Just because a higher division school could or should pursue a recruit, doesn't mean they will. Ike1024's back-to-back championship teams in Wooden D3 were anchored by Freddie Lyles, an uber-stud who should have been signed by a D2 school. His ath/spd/def was something like 70/80/90 and his per/bh was 90/80 I think (perhaps ike can post his ratings). He basically had no business being on a D3 team. But, if ike didn't take the risk to sign him, he almost certainly would not have won two NTs in a row. 

Recruiting is all about calculated risks. Don't shy away from signing a player because he's too good for your division. Survey the landscape for higher division schools that may go after your targets. Count the number of openings they have and the note the positions they need. Look at what states they typically recruit. These factors, among others, will help you gauge the probability that you'll have to compete with a higher division school.  

But, in the end, I think it's better to take the risk at greatness than sit back and settle for less. 

If I have at least 3 openings, I'm aggressive. With only 1 or 2, I may hold back. 

I'll use any chance pep gives me show off one of my favorite players:

Freddie Lyles:

	Yr.	Pos.	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	FT	TOT
	Jr.	SG	74	79	31	92	14	11	89	80	36	75	84	66	B-	731

He ended at 77/80/93 and 99 per, I believe.

Anyway, in fairness, he gained like 50+ points of per, so he wasn't as attractive as a recruit.  But I did go after him aggressively, and arguably had the two best guards in the country in the same class, both of whom should have been taken by good D2 schools.

Posted by ike1024 on 8/2/2012 10:50:00 AM (view original):
I'll use any chance pep gives me show off one of my favorite players:

Freddie Lyles:

	Yr.	Pos.	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	FT	TOT
	Jr.	SG	74	79	31	92	14	11	89	80	36	75	84	66	B-	731

He ended at 77/80/93 and 99 per, I believe.

Anyway, in fairness, he gained like 50+ points of per, so he wasn't as attractive as a recruit.  But I did go after him aggressively, and arguably had the two best guards in the country in the same class, both of whom should have been taken by good D2 schools.

That can be said about a lot of guys that D3 teams get.  I don't think what Weena is advising is necessarily to avoid D2 quality guys.  But, depending on prestige, there's a certain level where you're basically guaranteeing the guy will get nabbed by D2.  It's definitely easier to do your research and find the high potential, mediocre starting guys and still end up with top quality while avoiding the bullies of D2.

Posted by udm_mike on 8/2/2012 11:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ike1024 on 8/2/2012 10:50:00 AM (view original):
I'll use any chance pep gives me show off one of my favorite players:

Freddie Lyles:

	Yr.	Pos.	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	FT	TOT
	Jr.	SG	74	79	31	92	14	11	89	80	36	75	84	66	B-	731

He ended at 77/80/93 and 99 per, I believe.

Anyway, in fairness, he gained like 50+ points of per, so he wasn't as attractive as a recruit.  But I did go after him aggressively, and arguably had the two best guards in the country in the same class, both of whom should have been taken by good D2 schools.

That can be said about a lot of guys that D3 teams get.  I don't think what Weena is advising is necessarily to avoid D2 quality guys.  But, depending on prestige, there's a certain level where you're basically guaranteeing the guy will get nabbed by D2.  It's definitely easier to do your research and find the high potential, mediocre starting guys and still end up with top quality while avoiding the bullies of D2.

Undoubetdly that's the case.  And there are a lot of great coaches who wait until signings. 

And I agree, it's all about research and knowing who is in the the geographic area, how much money they have, etc.