All WIS players who have hitter & pitcher seasons Topic

biglenr
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In progressives, sometimes a sneaky way to get a player is to draft a player who you know will change position between hitter and pitcher...

For example, we all know about Babe Ruth starting in 1915 as a pitcher, then becoming a hitter in 1918.

But did you know that Roger Breshanan started his career as a pitcher?  Bucky Waters as an infielder?  Cy Seymour as a pitcher? 

Here's a list of all 92 players in the WIS database who are available as both pitchers and hitters.  The chart shows the first year they are a pitcher and the first year they are a hitter (position for first hitting year as well). 

I accept tips!

Player ID First Hitter Year First Pitcher Year LName FName POS
247 2006 1994 Anderson Brian OF
303 2007 1999 Ankiel Rick OF
946 1926 1914 Bentley Jack 1B
1405 1895 1896 Boyd Jake OF
1528 1901 1897 Bresnahan Roger C
17631 1919 1914 Bressler Rube OF
1782 1886 1885 Buffinton Charlie 1B
2016 1897 1894 Callahan Nixey 2B
2209 1887 1885 Caruthers Bob OF
2245 1997 2008 Castillo Alberto C
2338 1930 1944 Chapman Ben 3B
2648 1885 1889 Coleman John OF
2820 1926 1922 Cooney Johnny 1B
2851 1886 1885 Corcoran Larry OF
2974 1914 1908 Crandall Doc 2B
2975 1885 1888 Crane Ed OF
3023 1908 1909 Criss Dode OF
3097 2006 1997 Cruz Nelson OF
3199 1887 1885 Daily Ed OF
3303 1915 1926 Davies Chick OF
3392 1936 1939 Dean Chubby 1B
3657 1901 1895 Dolan Cozy OF
3692 1898 1899 Donovan Bill OF
3880 1901 1897 Dunn Jack 3B
3916 1946 1950 Dusak Erv OF
4031 1888 1889 Ehret Red OF
4088 1890 1886 Ely Bones OF
4492 1911 1899 Flaherty Patsy OF
4637 1887 1885 Foutz Dave OF
4696 1898 1891 Freeman Buck OF
4748 1905 1899 Frisk Emil OF
5046 1897 1899 Gettig Charlie 3B
5118 1888 1887 Gilks Bob OF
5188 1895 1888 Gleason Kid 2B
5565 1932 1929 Gudat Marv OF
5640 1903 1902 Hackett Jim 1B
5701 1952 1955 Hall Dick OF
5944 1952 1947 Hartung Clint OF
6058 1887 1885 Hecker Guy 1B
6167 1890 1885 Henry John OF
6253 1905 1902 Hess Otto OF
6279 1898 1899 Hickman Charlie OF
6333 1905 1906 Hillebrand Homer 1B
6621 1947 1955 Howell Dixie C
6622 1902 1899 Howell Harry 2B
6923 1948 1954 Jeffcoat Hal OF
7486 1997 2003 Kieschnick Brooks OF
8102 1902 1901 Lee Watty OF
8270 1943 1942 Lindell Johnny OF
8529 1904 1906 Lush Johnny 1B
8620 1944 1938 Macon Max 1B
8983 1889 1887 Mattimore Mike OF
8994 1888 1887 Maul Al 1B
9049 1897 1898 McAllister Sport OF
9517 1901 1893 Menefee Jock OF
9535 1899 1894 Mercer Win 3B
9781 1910 1901 Mitchell Fred C
9854 1945 1940 Monteagudo Rene OF
10067 1886 1885 Mountain Frank 1B
10096 1890 1886 Mullane Tony OF
17105 1960 1969 Murphy Danny OF
10403 1894 1894 Nicol George OF
10527 1953 1957 O'Brien Johnny 2B
10559 1928 1923 O'Doul Lefty OF
10728 1928 1929 Orwoll Ossie 1B
10908 1896 1893 Parrott Tom OF
11217 1906 1899 Phyle Bill 3B
11410 1886 1886 Powell Abner OF
11483 1890 1888 Proeser George OF
11537 1964 1967 Queen Mel OF
11780 1935 1936 Reis Bobby OF
12347 1922 1913 Russell Reb OF
12352 1918 1915 Ruth Babe OF
12449 1891 1888 Sanders Ben OF
12840 1901 1896 Seymour Cy OF
12875 1893 1890 Sharrott Jack OF
13182 1923 1926 Smith Bob SS
13219 1892 1886 Smith Elmer OF
13484 1893 1890 Stafford General OF
13664 1897 1889 Stivetts Jack OF
13714 1924 1914 Strand Paul OF
13722 1888 1890 Stratton Scott OF
13904 1887 1885 Sweeney Charlie 1B
13954 1897 1894 Tannehill Jesse OF
14069 1885 1886 Terry Adonis OF
14193 1897 1895 Thornton Walter OF
14416 1888 1886 Twitchell Larry OF
14530 1889 1887 Van Haltren George OF
14761 1896 1894 Wallace Bobby OF
14800 1932 1935 Walters Bucky 3B
15484 1918 1909 Wood Joe OF
15613 1903 1898 Yeager Joe 3B
8/7/2012 1:33 PM
italyprof
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Which makes you like the Rabbi who refused regular payment for circumcisions !  Sorry, old joke. 

Seriously, thanks ! What a great resource biglenr, you have saved us all weeks of research. 

Let's hear it for biglenr ! Hip Hip, Hooray ! 
8/7/2012 1:40 PM
italyprof
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The SIM has missed one by the way:

Willie Smith pitched 21 innings in 1963 with a 4.57 ERA - that is not sufficient to make the SIM 

BUT

in 1964 he pitched 31 innings for the Dodgers (same staff as Koufax) and had an ERA of 2.64. I have him as an OF on a progressive team but he has no pitcher manifestation in WIS, which is too bad. Usually 30 innings is enough to be in the system. 

Here are the stats:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithwi02.shtml
8/7/2012 1:48 PM
contrarian23
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Smith is not unique.  The 1918 Ruth is only available as an OF, although he pitched more than enough to qualify as a pitcher that season.

In any given season, players only show up in one manifestation - either a pitcher or a position player, not both.  I believe the only exceptions to this rule are players who played for multiple teams in the same season, and performed more as P for one, but more as a position player for the other.  George Nicol in 1894 and Abner Powell in 1886 are the two I'm aware of.

 

8/7/2012 3:00 PM (edited)
biglenr
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Yes... Many players cross over within a season.  These are just the players who have PRIMARY hitter and PRIMARY pitcher years in their career.

For a very brief while, there was a version of the sim where you could use Caruthers in the OF (or 1915 babe ruth in the OF) and use 1918 Ruth as a pitcher.... however, they quickly found out that the player didn't fatigue properly (remember:  hitters fatigue by PA, pitchers fatigue by IP thrown), and you could get 900 IP out of 1918 Ruth without tiring him out.... Or 600 PA out of 1915 ruth in the OF.


8/7/2012 2:28 PM
loma_prieta
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1st round of a dual progressive entering 1886/1916:

1  Sam Rice OF
2  Jimmy Ryan OF
3  Burleigh Grimes P
4  Matt Kilroy P
5  Denny Lyons 3B
6  Lou Bierbauer 2B
7  Harry Heilmann OF
8  Silver King P
9  Elton Chamberlain P
10 Stan Covaleski P
11 Urban Shocker P
12  Elmer Smith P
13  Jim Bagby Sr. P
14  Tony Mullane P
15  Frank Miller P
16  Jocko Flynn P

Smith went waaay late. So, good heads up biglenr. Did you assemble this list manually? It is certainly being added to the Essential WIS Threads bookmark folder.

Perhaps as a form of tip you could select any single MLB play and the forum could turn it into a GIF for you? I dunno, internet tips are hard.
8/7/2012 2:39 PM
dahsdebater
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So, I'm certainly not going to take the time to verify that all of these are correct, but the two Nelson Cruz's listed were different players that have been incorrectly lumped together under one player ID.  I've found a few guys like that before and typically WIS fixes it pretty quickly.

Nelson Cruz, the 1997-2003 pitcher, never appeared in a game without pitching.  Nelson Cruz, the 2006-present hitter, has never pitched.
8/7/2012 2:52 PM (edited)
biglenr
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I put this together via the player ID, did a database join for records where the player ID's are the same.

The database I use is from 2009, I haven't updated it because I don't need it for progressives yet.

So they might have already fixed this.  But in my spreadsheet, those two have the same player ID number.

(the tips comment was, of course, a lame joke.  I don't expect anything for this)

8/7/2012 2:56 PM
ooooohdoggie
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Bumped for Ohtani discussion.
6/30/2021 12:04 PM
fatguyrd
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Ohtani according to baseball reference his hitting seasons 2018;19 should be available. When I look him up in WIS there not. Why?
6/30/2021 1:57 PM
just4me
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Posted by fatguyrd on 6/30/2021 1:57:00 PM (view original):
Ohtani according to baseball reference his hitting seasons 2018;19 should be available. When I look him up in WIS there not. Why?
Player Team B PA/162 HR AVG AVG# OBP# OPS# 2B/100# 3B/100# HR/100# SPD Salary C 1B 2B 3B SS OF
1 Ohtani, Shohei 2018 Los Angeles Angels L 367 22 .285 .292 .366 .914 6 1 5 62 $2,649,313 -- -- -- -- -- --
2 Ohtani, Shohei 2019 Los Angeles Angels L 425 18 .286 .291 .346 .822 5 2 3 62 $2,585,199 -- -- -- -- -- --
3 Ohtani, Shohei 2020 Los Angeles Angels L 473 7 .190 .198 .296 .647 4 0 3 66 $1,985,138 -- -- -- -- -- --

Make sure you don't have secondary positions selected if you have ALL positions

6/30/2021 2:07 PM
fatguyrd
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Thanks
6/30/2021 2:23 PM
d_rock97
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**** the past requirements on this site. Ohtani NEEDS to be a pitcher in the upcoming 2021 player pool
6/30/2021 3:23 PM
chargingryno
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Posted by d_rock97 on 6/30/2021 3:23:00 PM (view original):
**** the past requirements on this site. Ohtani NEEDS to be a pitcher in the upcoming 2021 player pool
Couldn't agree more.

What's more, I think every player who both hit and pitched in the sim needs to be playable on either side.


6/30/2021 6:25 PM
Jtpsops
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Posted by chargingryno on 6/30/2021 6:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by d_rock97 on 6/30/2021 3:23:00 PM (view original):
**** the past requirements on this site. Ohtani NEEDS to be a pitcher in the upcoming 2021 player pool
Couldn't agree more.

What's more, I think every player who both hit and pitched in the sim needs to be playable on either side.


I really don't understand why this isn't a thing yet. It takes no effort on their part to simply add the other iteration. It also sucks in progs if you end up with a stud like Ohtani and can only use half of him. They also don't always choose the side that makes the most sense.

I dealt with something similar in an early season prog with the Indians. In 1905, Otto Hess threw 213 IP with a 1.17 WHIP. Not great, but decent. However, for some ridiculous reason, WIS has him as a hitter in 1905, when he had only 186 PA with an OPS of .638. Makes zero sense.
7/1/2021 10:25 AM
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