Which would you choose if you could have a player with excellent ratings in one, and mediocre ratings in the other (all else being equal) and why?

And does your answer vary by position (or other circumstances/factors)?

I ask because it seems they're very often treated as a matched pair (e.g., "you want a PG with good BH/PASS"), but obviously there are plenty of times when recruiting or setting depth charts that you need to prioritize one over the other.

Thoughts?

PG - BH and P
- If it's a situation where you HAVE to choose one or the other, then you're really in a position that you've recruited wrong and your selection doesn't matter.

SG - BH, then P
- I'm convinced that BH's affect on Per shooting is incredibly important

SF - BH, then P
- Poor BH SFs get destroyed by TOs. Plus, I prefer to have a good Per shooter @ the 3 spot.

PF/C - P only
- I don't care about BH for a PF/C.

I treat BH/PASS as pretty equal.

Both are more important the smaller the position (opposite of REB/BLK)..

I favor BH for uptempo, PASS for slowdown.

Quote: Originally posted by mlatsko1 on 9/30/2009PG - BH and P- If it's a situation where you HAVE to choose one or the other, then you're really in a position that you've recruited wrong and your selection doesn't matter.  SG - BH, then P
- I'm convinced that BH's affect on Per shooting is incredibly importantSF - BH, then P
- Poor BH SFs get destroyed by TOs.  Plus, I prefer to have a good Per shooter @ the 3 spot.PF/C - P only
- I don't care about BH for a PF/C.

At the higher levels, that statement is true. For DIII it is absolutely false. It's difficult to find a guy with great levels at BH, P, SPD, PE, and other applicable categories (A, DEF, ST, FT).

I think the answer to the original question depends on the situation. If his role (even from PG) is a scorer or shooter than I would go with BH. If his role is distributor than I would prefer P. Just my opinions...

Not so IMHO. At D3 one can expect to cap at around 70 to be great at pg. Finding an average potential pass at 60 and high pass at 40 isn't that tough to end around 65-70 in both.

I have 3 third year PGs on my Pacific DIII team. In BH/P they are 59/80, 60/73, and 90/59. I think these differences are what bluespruce was referring to, but I could be mistaken.

I think a good rule of thumb that I follow is for scorers you want higher BH for role players you want higher passing at least for the 1-3 positions. At the 4 and 5 BH isn't very important, it's more of a bonus, definitely passing over BH for your bigs.

Quote: Originally Posted By ccmathman on 9/30/2009I have 3 third year PGs on my Pacific DIII team. In BH/P they are 59/80, 60/73, and 90/59. I think these differences are what bluespruce was referring to, but I could be mistaken.

Yes - that's exactly the sort of thing I was referring to - sorry if I phrased it in a confusing way.

If you've got 2 DIII guards who are exactly equal in all other respects, but one is, say, 52/80 BH/P and the other is 80/52, which do you prefer, and in which circumstances?

And for big men, when (if ever) do you prefer the 30/8 over the 8/30 or vice versa?

And does it matter for which offense? For instance, triangle makes reference to passing in the "help" section, but makes no reference to BH. Motion requires both passing and ball handling according to the help section and flex makes reference to passing, but not ball handling.

I've wondered if there is any impact that would occur given the same players, same IQ, same distribution, but different offense. And does the motion require "less" good passing than is required in the other two because it appears to require "more" good BH? For example is a 70 PA in Tri and Flex the same as 65 PA in Motion? Does my question make sense?

I posed the Q to WIS and was given the ol' "good players will do well in all three sets" reply which didn't answer my question. Perhaps it was worded in such a way that it was hard to understand.

How's that Olaf team doing?

I have wondered that too Rails. But it seems like a hard to thing to test or to figure out just because there are so many things that go into making a player good on offense. If anyone wants to analyze that statistically that would be extremely helpful for recruiting. I think someone did a scatterplot about it a while back but it somehow came up that passing was the most important for fastbreak(WTF?) so I don't think that was accurate.

Oh and I personally would usually go with ballhandling for guards and passing for bigs

Quote: Originally posted by Rails on 9/30/2009And does it matter for which offense?  For instance, triangle makes reference to passing in the "help" section, but makes no reference to BH.  Motion requires both passing and ball handling according to the help section and flex makes reference to passing, but not ball handling.  I've wondered if there is any impact that would occur given the same players, same IQ, same distribution, but different offense.  And does the motion require "less" good passing than is required in the other two because it appears to require "more" good BH?  For example is a 70 PA in Tri and Flex the same as 65 PA in Motion?  Does my question make sense?I posed the Q to WIS and was given the ol' "good players will do well in all three sets" reply which didn't answer my question.  Perhaps it was worded in such a way that it was hard to understand.How's that Olaf team doing?

I think it does make a difference for different offenses. Not enough to change the preference of bh for shooters and pass for non shooters, but I would expect one offense to perform significantly better than another in some cases.

When you say, is 65 pass in motion like 70 in triangle, I don't think about it like that. To me, the difference is in how much the stat is used. So, I would expect a motion team to suffer less from a 5 point drop in passing on one of their guards than a triangle team. Similarly, they would benefit less from an increase. So, I would say a 65 in motion is like a 65 in triangle, but with a smaller coefficient. That is just my feeling though, I really have no idea.

Quote: Originally Posted By bluespruce on 9/30/200

If you've got 2 DIII guards who are exactly equal in all other respects, but one is, say, 52/80 BH/P and the other is 80/52, which do you prefer, and in which circumstances

I like the 52/80 at the backup point and the 80/52 at the backup sg. I prefer 70/70+ bh/ps for the pg and 70/70/70+ per/bh/ps at the sg. just my .02

Quote: Originally Posted By gbous314 on 9/30/2009I have wondered that too Rails. But it seems like a hard to thing to test or to figure out just because there are so many things that go into making a player good on offense. If anyone wants to analyze that statistically that would be extremely helpful for recruiting. I think someone did a scatterplot about it a while back but it somehow came up that passing was the most important for fastbreak(WTF?) so I don't think that was accurate

Actually, I have found that while I don't get a ton of assists out of Passing in the FB, it does seem to dramatically effect my turnovers in the FB.

BH