Sim Engine Like Real Life Topic

schroedess26
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Since colonels brings it up so much. Should the HD engine just be concrete? No more than 10 points swings from one game to another. If a 22-0 team plays a 0-22 team they should win every single time, even if the game is simulated 10,000 times?

I personally think the engine does a pretty good job of incorporating some weird outcomes to have these big upsets and great stories. Although its not fun when you lose it should be part of the game.

I don't see the point of playing the game if it doesn't mirror real life. So colonels knows the engine doesn't take into account for the daily ins and outs of the season? Who says the randomness of the engine isn't WIS putting it in to account for some of these things colonels says shouldn't be in a game, because why? ITS TO REAL? Colonels if you want a predictable game each and every time stick to EA sims.

The sim engine doesn't take a crap, its just the randomness of the game and the fact that the first time players play a team doesn't mean they will play them the same the second time in strategy.
1/16/2010 9:13 PM
alblack56
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It's fine as it is. It'd be boring if the favorite won every time
1/17/2010 12:12 AM
Weena
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There are so many factors that can change between the first and second meeting between two teams. Things like injuries, lineups, tempo, +/- settings, type of defense, type of offense, distribution, 3-point settings, fatigue, fouls, IQ, etc. Plus there is the RNG! Upsets are real and they should be included in HD.

I know some coaches will disagree with me but I swear I remember TK saying that upsets were built into the game. He said that there were XX% upsets in real life and that same factor was built into the engine. Upsets are real and should be included in HD. I have lost when I was a 54 point favorite. It happens.
1/17/2010 12:33 AM
jenningss
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I look at it this way. Lets say Team A has a 2/3 chance of winning.

I could buy some dice and roll'em with a 1-4 meaning team A wins.
Cost = $0.50 fun level = not much and not for long

I could devote years of my life to becoming a college coach.
Cost = $xxx,xxx way to high fun level = What fun? It's a job!


I prefer something that doesn't require an arm and a leg but maybe just an earlobe. And the financial cost must be below the "hear about it from the wife" threshold.
1/17/2010 3:28 AM
jlay
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There are alot of built in advantages for successful programs, the randomness of upsets is good in my opinion.
1/17/2010 5:08 AM
dalter
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Let me get this out of the way first: The sim engine has problems. Seble is on record as agreeing with this, and is working on fixing the problems he perceives in it as we speak. With that in mind, I think that anyone contending that the sim engine is just humming along, working perfectly is not dealing with reality.

I think the more relevant question is, "What area(s) does the sim really need to improve?"

And I'm not totally sure that randomness is one of them. If things were that ridiculously random, you just wouldn't see coaches having the type of consistent success they do every season. Guys like billyg, OR, LM2, etc. etc. I have three teams right now, and their rpi's are 2/3/3. I honestly don't think I could accomplish that if things were that unpredictably random.
1/17/2010 9:14 AM
colonels19
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Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 1/17/2010
Let me get this out of the way first: The sim engine has problems. Seble is on record as agreeing with this, and is working on fixing the problems he perceives in it as we speak. If you've ever played the NBA sim that seble used to run/ruin, you'd better keep low expectations...just warning you. With that in mind, I think that anyone contending that the sim engine is just humming along, working perfectly is not dealing with reality.

I think the more concrete question is, "What area(s) does the sim really need to improve?"

And I'm not totally sure that randomness is one of them. If things were that ridiculously random, you just wouldn't see coaches having the type of consistent success they did every season. It isn't "ridiculously random" all the time, but it seems to happen rather frequently, thus its a problem. WIS wouldn't know how to fix its RNG to begin with, so instead of addressing randomness problems, they'll continue to roll out the Chaminade v. Virginia and Villanova v. Georgetown arguments as they have prior. Like I've said before, as long as you continually use excuse like these (and I mean seble/WIS HD CS), then you/your randomness can never be wrong because a wildly random thing happened ONCE OR TWICE in real life. Guys like billyg, OR, LM2, etc. etc. I have three teams right now, and their rpi's are 2/3/3. I honestly don't think I could accomplish that if things were that unpredictably random. As I say above, it isn't all the time, but just because it isn't all the time, doesn't mean that it isn't still a problem.

1/17/2010 9:18 AM
dalter
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I'm not saying that it's random all the time. But if it were random frequently enough to be a real problem, it wouldn't be possible to have elite coaches that kick butt year-in, year-out. And there are plenty of them.
1/17/2010 9:21 AM
colonels19
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But because the "big boys" win/succeed over the course of the season many times, doesn't absolve the times where extreme/excessive randomness ruins games and consequently seasons. It probably needs to be tweaked to avoid this altogether, but instead of tweaking, we'll just get "Well Chaminade beat Virginia" and we're supposed to be satisfied with that....give me a break.
1/17/2010 9:24 AM
dalter
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I'm still trying to understand: If randomness was as bad and rampant as you're suggesting, how is it possible for guys to win 20+ games and make NT runs season after season?
1/17/2010 9:27 AM
colonels19
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Because it doesn't happen most of the time...however just because that is the case, doesn't mean that something doesn't need to be tweaked/fixed. The sim takes a **** every once in a while, not all the time.
1/17/2010 9:32 AM
schroedess26
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Quote: Originally posted by dalter on 1/17/2010Let me get this out of the way first: The sim engine has problems. Seble is on record as agreeing with this, and is working on fixing the problems he perceives in it as we speak. With that in mind, I think that anyone contending that the sim engine is just humming along, working perfectly is not dealing with reality. I think the more relevant question is, "What area(s) does the sim really need to improve?" And I'm not totally sure that randomness is one of them. If things were that ridiculously random, you just wouldn't see coaches having the type of consistent success they do every season. Guys like billyg, OR, LM2, etc. etc. I have three teams right now, and their rpi's are 2/3/3. I honestly don't think I could accomplish that if things were that unpredictably random.

Point made on my part. Its like saying your car isn't running right when it gets you to work and back. Sure the radio might not work all the time, sometimes like the rankings, but thats just a luxury not needed anyways. It can use a tune up and seble is doing that right now with the help of us in the beta. All I am saying is you can say its broke but then how do the top teams always make it to the NT and the top coaches have the best records every year?
1/17/2010 10:18 AM
schroedess26
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Quote: Originally posted by colonels19 on 1/17/2010Because it doesn't happen most of the time...however just because that is the case, doesn't mean that something doesn't need to be tweaked/fixed.  The sim takes a **** every once in a while, not all the time.

Well if it is so sparse of when it happens than there are other things that need to be focused on, like the new beta, recruit generation in there, and most important for you colonels, your game planning.
1/17/2010 10:21 AM
colonels19
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Thank you for red-lining me Mr. Stalin. I don't believe I have anything more to say here...
1/17/2010 10:26 AM
dalter
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More to the point, if it only happens occasionally, how are you differentiating between occasional randomness that's excessive or appropriate? To me, it would be excessive/inappropriate if it was preventing what I described above, which it clearly does not. How much randomness is too much for you?
1/17/2010 10:30 AM
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