HV vs CV Topic

oldave
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from time to time in recruiting discussions here in the forums, i have seen mention of specific ideas about HVs and CVs.



the theory that seems most common is that , when in a battle versus a specific opponent, you should look at your HV cost divided by your opponents HV cost. and compare that to your CV cost dvided by your opponents CV cost

So, lets assume the following (if anyone can provide more realistic numbers... please let me know and ill edit this)

My HV $300 My CV $800

oppHV $400 oppCV $1,000

using those numbers, my HV ratio is .75 and my CV ratio is .80

therefore, for me, HV are the better "value" in this situation.

looking at it form the point of view of my opponent...

his HV ratio is 1.33 and his CV ratio is 1.25

there fore, for my opponent, CV are the better value in this situation.



taking this to the extreme.. would ya'll agree that, given these numbers (and, assuming i am confident that no other competitors will enter this recruiting battle) I should use only HV and no CV at all?

and that my opponent would be wise to use only CV, and no HV (or as few as possible considering some may be neeeded to get them to accept the CV)



I have never gone to this extreme, but i have recently seen hints that other top coaches do.

Do any of you agree with this extreme approach? (or perhaps i have misunderstood you?)

For those who dont agree with this approach, what is your theory? do you feel that a mixture of HV and CV are needed to maximize your recruiting dollars? why?
2/22/2010 7:21 AM
sully712
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As a follow up...what if the schools are the same distance so costs are the same. Do CV mean more than HV? Vice versa? Neither?
2/22/2010 7:50 AM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By sully712 on 2/22/2010As a follow up...what if the schools are the same distance so costs are the same. Do CV mean more than HV? Vice versa? Neither
It would depend on the distance which one I would use.
2/22/2010 8:28 AM
zhawks
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Ole D what is the miles distance you are using for your example?
2/22/2010 8:29 AM
_hannibal_
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oldave, interesting topic.

Personally I think a mix is necessary because I suspect there may be diminishing returns when using the same tool repeatedly.

As to the question of ratios, I do not think this matters at all. The point is to maximize the amount of effort you put forth to the recruit with respect to the number of dollars spent. Without knowing the how much effort a HV or CV is worth we are guessing.

Let's take your example and suppose each team has $3K to spend. So you would do 10 HVs and your opponent would do 3 CVs. Who wins depends on the relative effort values. If a CV is worth 4x a HV, you lose. If a CV is worth only 3x a HV, you win.
2/22/2010 8:33 AM
kmasonbx
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I've heard from several people and from my experiences there are no diminishing returns when it comes to visits.
2/22/2010 10:01 AM
doomey
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Quote: Originally Posted By _hannibal_ on 2/22/2010




oldave, interesting topic.

Personally I think a mix is necessary because I suspect there may be diminishing returns when using the same tool repeatedly.

No. There is no evidence, anecdotally or otherwise, that this is true outside of phone calls.


As to the question of ratios, I do not think this matters at all. The point is to maximize the amount of effort you put forth to the recruit with respect to the number of dollars spent. Without knowing the how much effort a HV or CV is worth we are guessing.

Let's take your example and suppose each team has $3K to spend. So you would do 10 HVs and your opponent would do 3 CVs. Who wins depends on the relative effort values. If a CV is worth 4x a HV, you lose. If a CV is worth only 3x a HV, you win.

While there is no firm number, CW has it at roughly 2-1.




2/22/2010 10:22 AM
zhawks
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I think it is more then 2-1 cv to hv.
2/22/2010 10:40 AM
doomey
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not too much more, though. Would yould you go 10-6? =)
2/22/2010 10:49 AM
sully712
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So, a CV is worth a little more than 2-1 over a HV?? Or, roughly this amount?
2/22/2010 10:52 AM
gillispie
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Quote: Originally posted by oldave on 2/22/2010from time to time in recruiting discussions here in the forums, i have seen mention of specific ideas about HVs and CVs. the theory that seems most common is that , when in a battle versus a specific opponent, you should look at your HV cost divided by your opponents HV cost. and compare that to your CV cost dvided by your opponents CV costSo, lets assume the following (if anyone can provide more realistic numbers... please let me know and ill edit this)My HV $300 My CV $800oppHV $400 oppCV $1,000using those numbers, my HV ratio is .75 and my CV ratio is .80therefore, for me, HV are the better "value" in this situation.looking at it form the point of view of my opponent...his HV ratio is 1.33 and his CV ratio is 1.25there fore, for my opponent, CV are the better value in this situation. taking this to the extreme.. would ya'll agree that, given these numbers (and, assuming i am confident that no other competitors will enter this recruiting battle) I should use only HV and no CV at all?and that my opponent would be wise to use only CV, and no HV (or as few as possible considering some may be neeeded to get them to accept the CV) I have never gone to this extreme, but i have recently seen hints that other top coaches do. Do any of you agree with this extreme approach? (or perhaps i have misunderstood you?)For those who dont agree with this approach, what is your theory? do you feel that a mixture of HV and CV are needed to maximize your recruiting dollars? why?

ive seen this theory used many times, and honestly, its not a bad one. it gets you to the right answer most of the time, but i firmly believe that is luck, and the above theory is not conceptually sound. i take the following as absolutes:

1) the amount a visit is worth does not change with distance
2) there are no diminishing returns for visits (based on supposed claims by CS and the group consensus, i myself am not independently convinced).

based on those two, really, it is completely irrelevant what the ratio is between you and your opponents for a home or campus visit. that is not a bad way to hedge your bets, but all that really matters is what is the home to campus visit ratio, and what is your home to campus visit cost ratio.
2/22/2010 11:01 AM
starrider19
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I'm pretty sure that a CV is worth 2.0-2.5 HV in recruiting value.
2/22/2010 11:03 AM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By starrider19 on 2/22/2010I'm pretty sure that a CV is worth 2.0-2.5 HV in recruiting value
Roughly what I use when determining value in my recruiting efforts.

Re: Gil - I get exactly what you are saying but how else would you go about it if not that way? Since we have no real numbers to base it off of CV to HV ratio isn't the only other way to use what little info we have (~ 2:1 HV to CV effort ratio) and use the cost ratio to figure out what is the best method?

If you are having to spend 2x the cost per hv as the guy you are recruiting against how, even without knowing the CV/HV ratio, figure that continuing to use HVs is in your favor? Assuming all else is equal, you wouldn't stand a chance, whereas if you were using your CV v his HV things would change considerably.
2/22/2010 11:36 AM
gillispie
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This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.
2/22/2010 12:07 PM
_hannibal_
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Just to clarify I have no evidence of diminishing returns of visits; I'm glad to hear there is a consensus on the issue.

Also, I agree with gillespie, who seems to have said what I was trying to say but more elegantly.
2/22/2010 1:06 PM
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